[NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra

Tue Aug 8 08:47:04 AKDT 2006

I have the same problem with mine....I check the readouts before each
flight and have security tape on the door with the battery squeezed in
place....(its ugly, but you can't see it in the tray....) No problem has
been encountered with the tape in place.  If I experience a control
failure I hope I remember (and have time)  to squeeze the TX door!!!!  I
used to have the same problem with a Futaba 5UAP until I wired in a
Futaba J connector and bypassed the battery module concept. I do not
like battery modules... I like connectors with pigtails:-)  ( I won't
even say it......:-))

Chris White

________________________________

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Keith
Black
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 11:26 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra

Vince,

I think it's probably wise to secure the battery, but I'm a bit
skeptical that that was the problem, here is why.

I also have a 10X and when I set it down the other day with a slight jar
it turned itself off (as is being described here). In order to get it to
turn back on I had to apply pressure to the battery compartment. I then
started playing with it by shaking it to get it to turn off, but never
did it turn back on without some action on my part. Also, the radio
chirps when it's turned on. 

I suppose it's possible that it could turn itself OFF then ON, but it
would be extremely coincidental for it to be OFF just long enough to
crash, then ON when you looked at it, plus you might have heard the
chirp if this had happened (though I understand you were probably in a
state of shock at the time).

Do you use flight modes? If so, were you in FM1?  The reason I ask is if
you're in anything other than FM1 then the RX will give you a warning
when powered up.

Are you using the new synthesized TX module and RX?

Keith

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: vicenterc at comcast.net 

	To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
; 'NSRCA Mailing List' <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

	Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:51 AM

	Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra

	That is correct.  As we know, mother ground after the snap at
the 45 degree down line is getting closer at around 60+ mph.  It is not
good feeling and time past very fast in that particular situation.  I
wish that the plane was flying level.  

	I checked last night and the fail safe is programmed to go all
neutral in all surfaces and give a little up elevator.  After I lost
control, I noticed that the plane that was almost inverted increased the
angle as was approaching to the ground.  Therefore, I am almost 100%
sure that the fail-safe took over.  The theory that something happen to
the TX has to be consider now.  Jon Lowe suggested to check the
transmitter battery door.  I noticed that the door lash in mine is very
weak.  Now, I am wondering if the power to the transmitter got
disconnected for few seconds and caused the crash.  Actually, I was
helping a friend to set up his JR 10X few days before and the power to
the TX went suddenly off.  The problem was that the battery moved down
and got disconnected.  Checking last night, I found that requires just a
fraction of an inch to get disconnected. !  I am going to follow Jon
advise.  I am going to secure the battery cassette and make sure that
the door stays closed. 

	Vicente "Vince" Bortone

		-------------- Original message -------------- 
		From: "Richard Strickland"
<richard.s at allied-callaway.com> 

		             I think he said he didn't have time to try
throttle and rudder-engine at idle.

		             RS

		-----Original Message-----
		From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Fred Huber
		Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:55 PM
		To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
		Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra

		But... he still didn't have throttle response, so...
there had to be some form of control loss.  A stall MIGHT explain the
rest, but I kind of doubt that was it.

		BTW... I have the SAD emblem stickers on my plane.  

		Aircraftus Fragmentum

		----- Original Message -----

		From: Richard Strickland
<mailto:richard.s at allied-callaway.com>  

		To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  

		Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 5:49 PM

		Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra

		I suppose that if the airplane were over rotated by 90
degrees and at least still in a semi-stalled condition in knife-edge,
the controls would potentially be slow to respond.  In a right hand
snap, the right wing would be stalled and if it were pointed toward the
ground-still stalled--and the fuse was washing out the
left-upper-un-stalled! --panel , then that would account for the
non-responsiveness of the ailerons.  Aircraft can still be stalled at
high speeds and depending on the timing and amount of input-maybe
exaggerated with high rates with big expo, a secondary stall/spin can
take place making you wonder 'how did THAT happen?!'.  Not all that
unlikely a circumstance with as slippery as these critters are....  And
you might have just had some really lousy luck with wind shear at that
precise moment.  I am a Charter Member of SAD.

		RS

		-----Original Message-----
		From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
vicenterc at comcast.net
		Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 6:52 PM
		To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
		Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra

		Yes, yesterday afternoon I lost my Abbra.  I was doing
the 45 degree down with snap.  After the snap, I could not control the
plane.  This is my recollection of events:

		1. I over rotated the snap for a kittle more than 90
degrees.  It was clear to me at that early stage that something was
going wrong.  I snapped to the right.  

		2. My friend Charlie was calling for me.  He also
noticed and said something to put it back in position.  I told him that
the plane was not responding.  

		3. First reaction was to give full left to get it back
upright.  The ailerons did not respond.  When I realized that, I tried
to take it out of the dive by given down elevator since was pracically
in inverted position.  It did not respond.  It that aptitude everything
goes very fast.  Finally, I tried to give up elevator but was already
too late.  I am aware that I applied these control input.  It was clear
to me that there was no reaction.  I was able to realize that I didn't
have control and I could not avoid the crash.  

		4. I did not have time to do anything with rudder and
throttle.  Throttle was at idle.  

		5. When we checked the crash site. One aileron servo was
buzzing hard.  I disconnected the servo.  Therefore, my first impression
that the battery flew off and it got disconnected with the force of the
snap was not valid.

		6. I took the plane home as it came from the crash.  I
disconnected only the ailerons servos.  I checked the radio and
everything is working fine.  Only two servos are not working.  The
throttle servo that was practically destroyed in the crash and one
aileron servo that the gears were stripped.  I believe that this was
caused by the force of the impact.  There was not evidence of flutter in
the ailerons before the crash or structural damage after coming out of
the snap.

		7.  I believe that the plane was well over stall speed
after the snap.  Therefore, the plane was not in stalled condition.
However, I could be wrong.

		7. I use JR all around with digital servos.  PCM
receiver with fail safe programmed to cut engine and leave the servos in
the last commanded position.  

		8. I use 2300 mah NiMh battery (4 cells AA Sanyo).  I
checked the battery voltage and was at 5.15 volts after the crash.
Discharged the battery and gave 1540 mah using 250mah rate.  I am
planning to cycle the battery with higher loads.  

		9. It was very hot day.  The plane was sitting in the
sun and it was second fly of the day around 2:00 PM.  Easily was close
to 100 oF. 

		At this point, I have to admit that has to be pilot
error since I have not been able to find a definitive cause of the
crash.  It is clear that the snap initiated some kind of failure.  Other
pilots think that the NiMh battery gave up at high currents during the
snap and caused the crash.  I have been flying this type of battery for
two years now with no problems. 

		I am informing this to the group since I would like to
have your feedback.  If someone had a similar problem and found the
cause of the crash, please let me know.  I am going back to my backup
plane (the old hydeout).  I have a brand new Abbra so need to put it
together.   < /o:p>

		Thanks and have a nice day,

		Vicente Bortone

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