[NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra

Tue Aug 8 08:56:00 AKDT 2006

Vicente,  

You may be onto something regarding the TX battery hatch but on mine I think
it was more of me not getting it shut but not sure. 

How do you have your ailerons connected because I still think that the battery
was loose in the plane and that had something to do with the lost ABBRA.

Pat Hewitt

------ Original Message ------
Received: 10:55 AM CDT, 08/08/2006
From: vicenterc at comcast.net
To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>,        "'NSRCA
Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra

That is correct.  As we know, mother ground after the snap at the 45 degree
down line is getting closer at around 60+ mph.  It is not good feeling and
time past very fast in that particular situation.  I wish that the plane was
flying level.  

I checked last night and the fail safe is programmed to go all neutral in all
surfaces and give a little up elevator.  After I lost control, I noticed that
the plane that was almost inverted increased the angle as was approaching to
the ground.  Therefore, I am almost 100% sure that the fail-safe took over. 
The theory that something happen to the TX has to be consider now.  Jon Lowe
suggested to check the transmitter battery door.  I noticed that the door lash
in mine is very weak.  Now, I am wondering if the power to the transmitter got
disconnected for few seconds and caused the crash.  Actually, I was helping a
friend to set up his JR 10X few days before and the power to the TX went
suddenly off.  The problem was that the battery moved down and got
disconnected.  Checking last night, I found that requires just a fraction of
an inch to get disconnected.  I am going to follow Jon advise.  I am going to
secure the battery cassette and make sure that the door stays closed. 

Vicente "Vince" Bortone
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Richard Strickland" <richard.s at allied-callaway.com> 

             I think he said he didn’t have time to try throttle and
rudder—engine at idle.

             RS

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Fred Huber
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:55 PM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra

But... he still didn't have throttle response, so... there had to be some form
of control loss.  A stall MIGHT explain the rest, but I kind of doubt that was
it.

BTW... I have the SAD emblem stickers on my plane.  
Aircraftus Fragmentum

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Strickland 
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' 
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra

I suppose that if the airplane were over rotated by 90 degrees and at least
still in a semi-stalled condition in knife-edge, the controls would
potentially be slow to respond.  In a right hand snap, the right wing would be
stalled and if it were pointed toward the ground-still stalled--and the fuse
was washing out the left-upper-un-stalled--panel, then that would account for
the non-responsiveness of the ailerons.  Aircraft can still be stalled at high
speeds and depending on the timing and amount of input-maybe exaggerated with
high rates with big expo, a secondary stall/spin can take place making you
wonder 'how did THAT happen?!'.  Not all that unlikely a circumstance with as
slippery as these critters are....  And you might have just had some really
lousy luck with wind shear at that precise moment.  I am a Charter Member of
SAD.

RS

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
vicenterc at comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 6:52 PM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra

Yes, yesterday afternoon I lost my Abbra.  I was doing the 45 degree down with
snap.  After the snap, I could not control the plane.  This is my recollection
of events:

1. I over rotated the snap for a kittle more than 90 degrees.  It was clear to
me at that early stage that something was going wrong.  I snapped to the
right.  
2. My friend Charlie was calling for me.  He also noticed and said something
to put it back in position.  I told him that the plane was not responding.  
3. First reaction was to give full left to get it back upright.  The ailerons
did not respond.  When I realized that, I tried to take it out of the dive by
given down elevator since was pracically in inverted position.  It did not
respond.  It that aptitude everything goes very fast.  Finally, I tried to
give up elevator but was already too late.  I am aware that I applied these
control input.  It was clear to me that there was no reaction.  I was able to
realize that I didn't have control and I could not avoid the crash.  
4. I did not have time to do anything with rudder and throttle.  Throttle was
at idle.  
5. When we checked the crash site. One aileron servo was buzzing hard.  I
disconnected the servo.  Therefore, my first impression that the battery flew
off and it got disconnected with the force of the snap was not valid.
6. I took the plane home as it came from the crash.  I disconnected only the
ailerons servos.  I checked the radio and everything is working fine.  Only
two servos are not working.  The throttle servo that was practically destroyed
in the crash and one aileron servo that the gears were stripped.  I believe
that this was caused by the force of the impact.  There was not evidence of
flutter in the ailerons before the crash or structural damage after coming out
of the snap.
7.  I believe that the plane was well over stall speed after the snap. 
Therefore, the plane was not in stalled condition.  However, I could be
wrong.
7. I use JR all around with digital servos.  PCM receiver with fail safe
programmed to cut engine and leave the servos in the last commanded position. 

8. I use 2300 mah NiMh battery (4 cells AA Sanyo).  I checked the battery
voltage and was at 5.15 volts after the crash.  Discharged the battery and
gave 1540 mah using 250mah rate.  I am planning to cycle the battery with
higher loads.  
9. It was very hot day.  The plane was sitting in the sun and it was second
fly of the day around 2:00 PM.  Easily was close to 100 oF. 

At this point, I have to admit that has to be pilot error since I have not
been able to find a definitive cause of the crash.  It is clear that the snap
initiated some kind of failure.  Other pilots think that the NiMh battery gave
up at high currents during the snap and caused the crash.  I have been flying
this type of battery for two years now with no problems. 

I am informing this to the group since I would like to have your feedback.  If
someone had a similar problem and found the cause of the crash, please let me
know.  I am going back to my backup plane (the old hydeout).  I have a brand
new Abbra so need to put it together.   

Thanks and have a nice day,

Vicente Bortone

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