Electric F3A **Klipped ** 4 reposting

[Chad Northeast]

Del

 >I have never had a gallon jug of fuel catch on fire or burst in my 
vehicle or garage

I think I have addressed these concerns as honestly as I could, and what 
I shared with the list is 100% what I have experienced.  I have never 
burnt down my house or car or started a grass fire.  Lipo's just dont 
explode into flames on their own (at least not that I have seen, and I 
have a lot of them) !  User error when setting up the charger (cell 
count) is the number 1 cause of fires, to me this is akin to throwing a 
match into a gallon of fuel as its negligent not to check that your 
charger is setup right.  Thats what I mean by crossing your t's and 
dotting your i's with the electrics.  With the new Thunder power charger 
coming along with their balancers setting the wrong cell count should be 
nearly impossible.

 >I want to come out and have fun and relax when flying.. Not to chase 
maintaince chores and try to remember more details. They need 
reliability and dependability of products that work all the time they 
way they should if you want to stay competitive.

That is the great thing about the electric setup, at the field there is 
no work!  I can head out to the field and pound through 4 flights (no 
charging) faster than any glow plane.  There is no needle to tune, no 
engine to start, nothing to clean, no header to break, nothing to fuel.  
Can things fail, absolutely.  As Jason said though the majority of stuff 
he saw at Hacker were from guys pushing outside the limits of the 
equipment.  If you run a YS outside its happy place it will go boom as 
fast as an electric will!

 >Many used to having standing joke about need for 3 YS engines to stay 
competitive..  I wonder how many packs and chargers and need to have 
vehicle full of gas has to be addressed to be truly competitive and to 
have backups of how many backups..

When I flew YS I did have 3 motors :)  I rarely used it but in my 
experience you were asking for trouble if you didnt have three, I did 
have engine failures in both Ireland and in Poland during the Worlds 
although it was always during practise and never cost me a round.

I can tell you when I went to France I took 2 planes, 2 chargers, 4 sets 
of batteries, a spare RX, a full set of spare servos, spare 
extensions/switches etc,12V power supply, and an array of tools.  I 
didnt take a spare motor (both Dez and Adam did), and the team as a 
whole (3 people) took 1 spare ESC just in case and never used it.....I 
started building my backup after I got back from Muncie, and I finished 
the control linkages after we got to France :)  I flew it two flights to 
make sure it flew and never used it again :)  Both Adam and Dez never 
brought their backup models to the starting box, I always did but really 
questioned my sanity as I assembled and disassembled it over and over 
:-)  I saw other electric guys only bring 1 model to the starting box.  
I know of two pilots who failed to start in the three minute time, 1 was 
a two-stroke, 1 was a 4-stroke. 

As Jason said e-pattern is not for everyone, I can think of a few guys 
who I will recommend avoid it at all costs.....but its also not the doom 
and gloom of failures that some like to post.

Chad

Del K. Rykert wrote:

>    For me when they can get packs to provide 500 ten minute flights 
> maintaining 90% of their performance then they might be worth the 
> switch to electric..  I have never had a gallon jug of fuel catch on 
> fire or burst in my vehicle or garage.   I want to come out and have 
> fun and relax when flying.. Not to chase maintaince chores and try to 
> remember more details. They need reliability and dependability of 
> products that work all the time they way they should if you want to 
> stay competitive.  The current crop of flyers allows nothing less. 
> Many used to having standing joke about need for 3 YS engines to stay 
> competitive..  I wonder how many packs and chargers and need to have 
> vehicle full of gas has to be addressed to be truly competitive and to 
> have backups of how many backups..
>    I am smart enough to admit I know nothing about electrics and not 
> sure I could afford to learn it all to be competitive all over 
> again..  With so many mis truths and half truths being shared  where 
> does one draw the line at trusting and believing anymore...  Has 
> eroded the credibility of this list in my eyes..
>
>                 Del
>          nsrca - 473
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grow Pattern" <pattern4u at comcast.net>
> To: "NSRCA Discussion" <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 11:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Electric F3A
>
>
>> Del,
>>       It always intrigues me how much people will rationalize once 
>> they have made a decision to go one way or another. I well remember 
>> the YS zealots who would tell you how great their engines were. I 
>> also remember how much they LEFT OUT!
>>
>> Back then you didn't hear about how many piston, rods, bearings etc. 
>> that they were going through, especially if they were sponsored or 
>> psuedo-sponsored.
>>
>> When, as a reporter, I asked a lot of questions about electrics I 
>> never go very good answers. I even purchased a bunch of Thunder power 
>> batteries and Hacker motors and speed controllers. When I wrote on 
>> this list with even the slightest hint of criticism of electrics my 
>> e-mail inbox would soon start filling up. I was told I didn't know 
>> this and I didn't know that etc. well guess what there was a lot i 
>> didn't know, but also a lot that neither you or I were not getting told.
>>
>> I had a very hard push back from Jerry Budd about how wrong I was and 
>> how great the stuff was that he and Tony Frackowiak were running. No 
>> doubt about their successes and I am absolutely not even trying to 
>> detract from that at all. BUT when you poke me that hard my instincts 
>> kick in and go digging.
>>
>> I was told 700 + great flights - So I then ask, at what cost?  Was it 
>> 20 packs?  The cost, unless sponsored, is around $700 a pack (2 
>> sticks). How deep are your pockets folks?
>>
>> How long did the packs last? Was it months or more like just a few 
>> weeks? When I say how long I really mean how many cycles. Talking to 
>> experienced electric FAI users I get numbers like 40-60 on the 
>> 8000mAh packs, but better on the newer ones. Even at the claimed two 
>> flights per charge that's still pretty expensive!
>>
>> I also found out that the packs were not aging very well. I could not 
>> find out for sure but I think it was around 3 months before they 
>> became non-competitive..Would they be good after a winter of none 
>> flying. Could not get an answer there at all.
>>
>> Then I got into how  many motors have been in Tony/Jerry's plane to 
>> get that many flights. How many repairs to motors for whatever reason.
>> Very hard to get an answer here so I'll will also be vague.  Several 
>> gear boxes and motors/rotors went in and out of that plane. To you 
>> and I how much that represents not only in dollars, but lost flying 
>> time while waiting for repairs, is hard to estimate but you can draw 
>> your own conclusions. You could say that the new electrics are like 
>> the old YS's. No matter what you say there are definitely a set of 
>> "hidden" factors that should be put into the equation when comparing 
>> electric and glow.
>>
>> I then got into how many packs you need to take to the field for a 
>> practice session or a local contest. That obviously depends upon how 
>> many chargers you have. I used to use three 109's. I saw most using 5 
>> chargers and two, three or even four, deep cycle batteries. I am 
>> assuming was the case unless there was a 110v supply nearby. Then you 
>> need to consider maintaining the 12 v batteries as well. i needed six 
>> packs fro one session. If there was not time between a round to 
>> charge you needed a fresh pack. Never asked what fresh meant. Maybe I 
>> should have?
>>
>> I know that several controllers impersonated in-flight smoke systems. 
>> That one I knew about and is to be expected when you put a lot of DC 
>> electricity though things, sooner or later, right!
>>
>> I don't think that I was lied to, but I do think that when people are 
>> sponsored or just enamored with the latest purchase that they leave 
>> out the sort of stuff that we all really need to know. As and aside, 
>> I have seen a lot more honest reports on electric performance now 
>> that the world championships are over.
>>
>> I know that I will get some heat for what I report on this list, but 
>> if I help a pattern pilot make a better decision it will make the 
>> asbestos underwear feel more comfortable.
>> I am still concerned that regular pattern pilots will spend a lot of 
>> money, get trapped on the treadmill of "latest" power-pack/motor, and 
>> then be very disappointed in the longevity of their equipment.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Eric.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Del K. Rykert" 
>> <drykert2 at rochester.rr.com>
>> To: "John Ferrell" <johnferrell at earthlink.net>; "NSRCA Discussion" 
>> <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: Electric F3A
>>
>>
>>> For some of us this is why we will never be able to afford to switch 
>>> even if we felt the desire..
>>>
>>>                 Del
>>>          nsrca - 473
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ferrell" 
>>> <johnferrell at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "NSRCA Discussion" <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:07 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Electric F3A
>>>
>>>
>>>> Battery prices and their unpredictable life seem to be the major 
>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> Still, it does not seem to me that one can compute the power needs 
>>>> for an electric from the experience gained with an IC power plant.
>>>>
>>>> John Ferrell
>>>> http://DixieNC.US
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick" 
>>>> <jpavlick at idseng.com>
>>>> To: "NSRCA Discussion" <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:21 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: Electric F3A
>>>>
>>>>
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