Electric F3A **Klipped ** 4 reposting
Del K. Rykert
drykert2 at rochester.rr.com
Sat Sep 24 12:36:55 AKDT 2005
Hi Chad..
Thank you for your open and honest sharing of facts. It is re-freshing
to see some are willing to tell it like it is. Wish human nature allowed all
to follow in your footsteps.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad Northeast" <chad at f3acanada.org>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Electric F3A **Klipped ** 4 reposting
> Del
>
> >I have never had a gallon jug of fuel catch on fire or burst in my
> vehicle or garage
>
> I think I have addressed these concerns as honestly as I could, and what I
> shared with the list is 100% what I have experienced. I have never burnt
> down my house or car or started a grass fire. Lipo's just dont explode
> into flames on their own (at least not that I have seen, and I have a lot
> of them) ! User error when setting up the charger (cell count) is the
> number 1 cause of fires, to me this is akin to throwing a match into a
> gallon of fuel as its negligent not to check that your charger is setup
> right. Thats what I mean by crossing your t's and dotting your i's with
> the electrics. With the new Thunder power charger coming along with their
> balancers setting the wrong cell count should be nearly impossible.
>
> >I want to come out and have fun and relax when flying.. Not to chase
> maintaince chores and try to remember more details. They need reliability
> and dependability of products that work all the time they way they should
> if you want to stay competitive.
>
> That is the great thing about the electric setup, at the field there is no
> work! I can head out to the field and pound through 4 flights (no
> charging) faster than any glow plane. There is no needle to tune, no
> engine to start, nothing to clean, no header to break, nothing to fuel.
> Can things fail, absolutely. As Jason said though the majority of stuff
> he saw at Hacker were from guys pushing outside the limits of the
> equipment. If you run a YS outside its happy place it will go boom as
> fast as an electric will!
>
> >Many used to having standing joke about need for 3 YS engines to stay
> competitive.. I wonder how many packs and chargers and need to have
> vehicle full of gas has to be addressed to be truly competitive and to
> have backups of how many backups..
>
> When I flew YS I did have 3 motors :) I rarely used it but in my
> experience you were asking for trouble if you didnt have three, I did have
> engine failures in both Ireland and in Poland during the Worlds although
> it was always during practise and never cost me a round.
>
> I can tell you when I went to France I took 2 planes, 2 chargers, 4 sets
> of batteries, a spare RX, a full set of spare servos, spare
> extensions/switches etc,12V power supply, and an array of tools. I didnt
> take a spare motor (both Dez and Adam did), and the team as a whole (3
> people) took 1 spare ESC just in case and never used it.....I started
> building my backup after I got back from Muncie, and I finished the
> control linkages after we got to France :) I flew it two flights to make
> sure it flew and never used it again :) Both Adam and Dez never brought
> their backup models to the starting box, I always did but really
> questioned my sanity as I assembled and disassembled it over and over :-)
> I saw other electric guys only bring 1 model to the starting box. I know
> of two pilots who failed to start in the three minute time, 1 was a
> two-stroke, 1 was a 4-stroke.
> As Jason said e-pattern is not for everyone, I can think of a few guys who
> I will recommend avoid it at all costs.....but its also not the doom and
> gloom of failures that some like to post.
>
> Chad
>
> Del K. Rykert wrote:
>
>> For me when they can get packs to provide 500 ten minute flights
>> maintaining 90% of their performance then they might be worth the switch
>> to electric.. I have never had a gallon jug of fuel catch on fire or
>> burst in my vehicle or garage. I want to come out and have fun and
>> relax when flying.. Not to chase maintaince chores and try to remember
>> more details. They need reliability and dependability of products that
>> work all the time they way they should if you want to stay competitive.
>> The current crop of flyers allows nothing less. Many used to having
>> standing joke about need for 3 YS engines to stay competitive.. I wonder
>> how many packs and chargers and need to have vehicle full of gas has to
>> be addressed to be truly competitive and to have backups of how many
>> backups..
>> I am smart enough to admit I know nothing about electrics and not sure
>> I could afford to learn it all to be competitive all over again.. With
>> so many mis truths and half truths being shared where does one draw the
>> line at trusting and believing anymore... Has eroded the credibility of
>> this list in my eyes..
>>
>> Del
>> nsrca - 473
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grow Pattern" <pattern4u at comcast.net>
>> To: "NSRCA Discussion" <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 11:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: Electric F3A
>>
>>
>>> Del,
>>> It always intrigues me how much people will rationalize once they
>>> have made a decision to go one way or another. I well remember the YS
>>> zealots who would tell you how great their engines were. I also remember
>>> how much they LEFT OUT!
>>>
>>> Back then you didn't hear about how many piston, rods, bearings etc.
>>> that they were going through, especially if they were sponsored or
>>> psuedo-sponsored.
>>>
>>> When, as a reporter, I asked a lot of questions about electrics I never
>>> go very good answers. I even purchased a bunch of Thunder power
>>> batteries and Hacker motors and speed controllers. When I wrote on this
>>> list with even the slightest hint of criticism of electrics my e-mail
>>> inbox would soon start filling up. I was told I didn't know this and I
>>> didn't know that etc. well guess what there was a lot i didn't know, but
>>> also a lot that neither you or I were not getting told.
>>>
>>> I had a very hard push back from Jerry Budd about how wrong I was and
>>> how great the stuff was that he and Tony Frackowiak were running. No
>>> doubt about their successes and I am absolutely not even trying to
>>> detract from that at all. BUT when you poke me that hard my instincts
>>> kick in and go digging.
>>>
>>> I was told 700 + great flights - So I then ask, at what cost? Was it 20
>>> packs? The cost, unless sponsored, is around $700 a pack (2 sticks).
>>> How deep are your pockets folks?
>>>
>>> How long did the packs last? Was it months or more like just a few
>>> weeks? When I say how long I really mean how many cycles. Talking to
>>> experienced electric FAI users I get numbers like 40-60 on the 8000mAh
>>> packs, but better on the newer ones. Even at the claimed two flights per
>>> charge that's still pretty expensive!
>>>
>>> I also found out that the packs were not aging very well. I could not
>>> find out for sure but I think it was around 3 months before they became
>>> non-competitive..Would they be good after a winter of none flying. Could
>>> not get an answer there at all.
>>>
>>> Then I got into how many motors have been in Tony/Jerry's plane to get
>>> that many flights. How many repairs to motors for whatever reason.
>>> Very hard to get an answer here so I'll will also be vague. Several
>>> gear boxes and motors/rotors went in and out of that plane. To you and I
>>> how much that represents not only in dollars, but lost flying time while
>>> waiting for repairs, is hard to estimate but you can draw your own
>>> conclusions. You could say that the new electrics are like the old YS's.
>>> No matter what you say there are definitely a set of "hidden" factors
>>> that should be put into the equation when comparing electric and glow.
>>>
>>> I then got into how many packs you need to take to the field for a
>>> practice session or a local contest. That obviously depends upon how
>>> many chargers you have. I used to use three 109's. I saw most using 5
>>> chargers and two, three or even four, deep cycle batteries. I am
>>> assuming was the case unless there was a 110v supply nearby. Then you
>>> need to consider maintaining the 12 v batteries as well. i needed six
>>> packs fro one session. If there was not time between a round to charge
>>> you needed a fresh pack. Never asked what fresh meant. Maybe I should
>>> have?
>>>
>>> I know that several controllers impersonated in-flight smoke systems.
>>> That one I knew about and is to be expected when you put a lot of DC
>>> electricity though things, sooner or later, right!
>>>
>>> I don't think that I was lied to, but I do think that when people are
>>> sponsored or just enamored with the latest purchase that they leave out
>>> the sort of stuff that we all really need to know. As and aside, I have
>>> seen a lot more honest reports on electric performance now that the
>>> world championships are over.
>>>
>>> I know that I will get some heat for what I report on this list, but if
>>> I help a pattern pilot make a better decision it will make the asbestos
>>> underwear feel more comfortable.
>>> I am still concerned that regular pattern pilots will spend a lot of
>>> money, get trapped on the treadmill of "latest" power-pack/motor, and
>>> then be very disappointed in the longevity of their equipment.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Eric.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Del K. Rykert"
>>> <drykert2 at rochester.rr.com>
>>> To: "John Ferrell" <johnferrell at earthlink.net>; "NSRCA Discussion"
>>> <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Electric F3A
>>>
>>>
>>>> For some of us this is why we will never be able to afford to switch
>>>> even if we felt the desire..
>>>>
>>>> Del
>>>> nsrca - 473
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ferrell"
>>>> <johnferrell at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "NSRCA Discussion" <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:07 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Electric F3A
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Battery prices and their unpredictable life seem to be the major
>>>>> problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still, it does not seem to me that one can compute the power needs for
>>>>> an electric from the experience gained with an IC power plant.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Ferrell
>>>>> http://DixieNC.US
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick"
>>>>> <jpavlick at idseng.com>
>>>>> To: "NSRCA Discussion" <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:21 AM
>>>>> Subject: RE: Electric F3A
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
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