Electric F3A **Klipped ** 4 reposting

[Del K. Rykert]

Eric,
    I agree with many of your observations. What I find amazing is many blow 
the horn for Electrics they often (majority) neglect to share all the 
facts,..
    What I feel would be a major mistake is to rule change (legislate) 
advantages to merits of Electric just to give them advantage...  I've heard 
some comment..  his model does well for an electric..  Why need the 
qualifier..  If it is such a viable means of propulsion then let it stand on 
it own without special treatment.  Reminds me of the 120 4-cycle fiasco.. 
And many of us know how that turned out..
    So if those that want to wave the Electrics flag and say its better than 
Glow then please share all the facts .. not just the candy..  People have no 
problem making digs about glow whether 4 or 2..   Electrics' should be able 
to accept the same fair treatment.. Myself I can't justify running family 
vehicle breathing exhaust fumes, concerns for grass fires when parked on dry 
grass from catalytic converters that many seem to forget about..  I haven't 
seen a glow motor burn down a house yet...  That is reason enough for me to 
stay with glow.
    I wonder why some are so critical of the criticism... Is it because they 
are sponsored?  Nah  COULDN'T BE..!!
     I loved the one where a sponsored pilot was doing a demo flight for a 
speed controller group with the controller going up in smoke...   Course you 
don't read about that story on the list..
    For me when they can get packs to provide 500 ten minute flights 
maintaining 90% of their performance then they might be worth the switch to 
electric..  I have never had a gallon jug of fuel catch on fire or burst in 
my vehicle or garage.   I want to come out and have fun and relax when 
flying.. Not to chase maintaince chores and try to remember more details. 
They need reliability and dependability of products that work all the time 
they way they should if you want to stay competitive.  The current crop of 
flyers allows nothing less. Many used to having standing joke about need for 
3 YS engines to stay competitive..  I wonder how many packs and chargers and 
need to have vehicle full of gas has to be addressed to be truly competitive 
and to have backups of how many backups..
    I am smart enough to admit I know nothing about electrics and not sure I 
could afford to learn it all to be competitive all over again..  With so 
many mis truths and half truths being shared  where does one draw the line 
at trusting and believing anymore...  Has eroded the credibility of this 
list in my eyes..

                 Del
          nsrca - 473

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Grow Pattern" <pattern4u at comcast.net>
To: "NSRCA Discussion" <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: Electric F3A


> Del,
>       It always intrigues me how much people will rationalize once they 
> have made a decision to go one way or another. I well remember the YS 
> zealots who would tell you how great their engines were. I also remember 
> how much they LEFT OUT!
>
> Back then you didn't hear about how many piston, rods, bearings etc. that 
> they were going through, especially if they were sponsored or 
> psuedo-sponsored.
>
> When, as a reporter, I asked a lot of questions about electrics I never go 
> very good answers. I even purchased a bunch of Thunder power batteries and 
> Hacker motors and speed controllers. When I wrote on this list with even 
> the slightest hint of criticism of electrics my e-mail inbox would soon 
> start filling up. I was told I didn't know this and I didn't know that 
> etc. well guess what there was a lot i didn't know, but also a lot that 
> neither you or I were not getting told.
>
> I had a very hard push back from Jerry Budd about how wrong I was and how 
> great the stuff was that he and Tony Frackowiak were running. No doubt 
> about their successes and I am absolutely not even trying to detract from 
> that at all. BUT when you poke me that hard my instincts kick in and go 
> digging.
>
> I was told 700 + great flights - So I then ask, at what cost?  Was it 20 
> packs?  The cost, unless sponsored, is around $700 a pack (2 sticks). How 
> deep are your pockets folks?
>
> How long did the packs last? Was it months or more like just a few weeks? 
> When I say how long I really mean how many cycles. Talking to experienced 
> electric FAI users I get numbers like 40-60 on the 8000mAh packs, but 
> better on the newer ones. Even at the claimed two flights per charge 
> that's still pretty expensive!
>
> I also found out that the packs were not aging very well. I could not find 
> out for sure but I think it was around 3 months before they became 
> non-competitive..Would they be good after a winter of none flying. Could 
> not get an answer there at all.
>
> Then I got into how  many motors have been in Tony/Jerry's plane to get 
> that many flights. How many repairs to motors for whatever reason.
> Very hard to get an answer here so I'll will also be vague.  Several gear 
> boxes and motors/rotors went in and out of that plane. To you and I how 
> much that represents not only in dollars, but lost flying time while 
> waiting for repairs, is hard to estimate but you can draw your own 
> conclusions. You could say that the new electrics are like the old YS's. 
> No matter what you say there are definitely a set of "hidden" factors that 
> should be put into the equation when comparing electric and glow.
>
> I then got into how many packs you need to take to the field for a 
> practice session or a local contest. That obviously depends upon how many 
> chargers you have. I used to use three 109's. I saw most using 5 chargers 
> and two, three or even four, deep cycle batteries. I am assuming was the 
> case unless there was a 110v supply nearby. Then you need to consider 
> maintaining the 12 v batteries as well. i needed six packs fro one 
> session. If there was not time between a round to charge you needed a 
> fresh pack. Never asked what fresh meant. Maybe I should have?
>
> I know that several controllers impersonated in-flight smoke systems. That 
> one I knew about and is to be expected when you put a lot of DC 
> electricity though things, sooner or later, right!
>
> I don't think that I was lied to, but I do think that when people are 
> sponsored or just enamored with the latest purchase that they leave out 
> the sort of stuff that we all really need to know. As and aside, I have 
> seen a lot more honest reports on electric performance now that the world 
> championships are over.
>
> I know that I will get some heat for what I report on this list, but if I 
> help a pattern pilot make a better decision it will make the asbestos 
> underwear feel more comfortable.
> I am still concerned that regular pattern pilots will spend a lot of 
> money, get trapped on the treadmill of "latest" power-pack/motor, and then 
> be very disappointed in the longevity of their equipment.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Del K. Rykert" <drykert2 at rochester.rr.com>
> To: "John Ferrell" <johnferrell at earthlink.net>; "NSRCA Discussion" 
> <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Electric F3A
>
>
>> For some of us this is why we will never be able to afford to switch even 
>> if we felt the desire..
>>
>>                 Del
>>          nsrca - 473
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "John Ferrell" <johnferrell at earthlink.net>
>> To: "NSRCA Discussion" <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: Electric F3A
>>
>>
>>> Battery prices and their unpredictable life seem to be the major 
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Still, it does not seem to me that one can compute the power needs for 
>>> an electric from the experience gained with an IC power plant.
>>>
>>> John Ferrell
>>> http://DixieNC.US
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "John Pavlick" <jpavlick at idseng.com>
>>> To: "NSRCA Discussion" <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:21 AM
>>> Subject: RE: Electric F3A
>>>
>>>

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