F3A judges for local comps

[Dave Burton]

I must be getting too old for pattern. Makes my head hurt to follow all this.
I think we make it too complicated. Gotta remember the objective is to line up the pilots in each class from best to worse. It doesn't matter what the scores are as long as we always get the objective right.
In thirty some years of flying contest, I don't recall a single time when the best pilot didn't win. No matter how bad or good the judging is we always meet that objective in my experience.
Dave Burton

-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Dean Pappas
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:01 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: RE: F3A judges for local comps


Hi Pete,
So you are in a bind. Let me add another way-out possibility to the mix.
Let's say you have a different one or two out of "N" pilots, in the class, skip each round, and judge instead.
You total up the scores of those two judges, and assign the pilots who did fly in the round an ordinal ranking.
 
Why an ordinal? Because trying to mix scores in an uneven exposure situation is problematic, and preserving the actual point spreads offers several ways for a judging competitor to be ... ahem ... strategic. All you preserve from each round is a direct, better or not, comparison of one pilot against each other, in the round. This still offers a crooked competitor a way to booger the results, but this setup is not being offered up as any kind of ideal!
 
 First, you have to juggle the number of judges per round, and the number of rounds so that no one sits out a comparatively large number of rounds, and also so that no one ever judges with the same other person(s) twice. This will not be trivial, but not everyone needs to judge. It might be nice ... It will probably dictate how many rounds are flown. In the case of weather problems, ties are easily possible, unless each flier in contention has flown at least one round against each other contender.
 
 Because of the mixing, each competitor will get a chance to be directly compared to each other competitor, for at least a good portion of the rounds. That's why you never judge with the same guy twice: you want to be compared to him, too.You average all the ordinals a pilot got, and compare those, at the end of the contest. low number wins. Rounds judged don't count in the average, and missed rounds are assigned last place. You might decide to drop a pilot's worst ordinal, before averaging.
 
I know it's a wacky setup, but if there was only one class of Pattern, something like this might have happened. You know that there were, once upon a time, such things as club judges!
 
Dean
 
 

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: discussion-request at nsrca.org on behalf of Dave Burton 
	Sent: Wed 11/9/2005 6:17 PM 
	To: Peter Pennisi; discussion at nsrca.org 
	Cc: 
	Subject: RE: F3A judges for local comps
	
	

	I think it's a good idea, except I'd suggest not dropping the high and low
	scores. Let them all count and IMO you'll get a better result.
	Dave Burton
	
	-----Original Message-----
	From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
	[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Peter Pennisi
	Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 5:42 PM
	To: discussion at nsrca.org
	Subject: F3A judges for local comps
	
	
	
	We currently have a big problem with the number of experienced flyers which
	show up at comps. We have a healthy number of F3A flyers and a good number
	of new and very inexperienced sportsman class flyers. Unfortunately our
	middle ranks have been decimated for reasons I am not really sure about
	(that is a topic for another day).
	
	Anyway this leaves us very short for experienced judges who a capable of
	judging F3A.
	
	We a going to try an experiment by having F3A flyers judge each other for
	the comp. Lets say we have five F3A flyers -while one fly's the others judge
	that flight which gives us four judges. We will drop the highest and lowest
	scores and the other scores will be averaged to arrive at a flight score and
	so forth.
	
	Results for each of the rounds will not be available until the end of the
	comp and flyers are not to discuss anything about judging the flights until
	the end of the comp.
	
	Has anyone tried this and are there any other suggestions we can use to make
	it work.
	
	The approach will fail if competitors team up to try and force a result but
	the guys involved are not that type.
	
	What do you all think?
	
	Peter
	
	
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