calling complete for new takeoff

[Lewis, Richard]

When to call the takeoff/landing and the required downgrade is a good
question ...I think you have to call it as described by Scott below...

The new takeoff/landing sequences are a poor manifestation of the what I
think was intended.  I think the intent was to simply eliminate scoring
takeoffs and landings, but in the process of writing the rules, a whole
other problem was created.  It could be very difficult for sportsman
pilot and even many higher ranking pilots to get scored on these
maneuvers if they are judged by the book.  These are strictly defined
maneuvers with NO room for any error at all...If judged per the written
rule, some pretty subtle, otherwise benign deviations should yield a
zero scores since any downgrade at all must result in a zero.  If you
think the new landing procedure is weird, try the intermediate sequence
where the last maneuver is downwind, it opens even more points for
discussion and even seems to contradict the rule allowing a maximum of
two passes after takeoff and before landing.

This was discussed at our judging seminar taught in Houston, and all he
could do is read the rule as written and agree that it needed
clarification.  At our first contest this year, judging these maneuvers
came up at the pilots meeting.  After considerable discussion with no
concensus with regard to the clarification of the rule and how it should
be judged, the CD decided that for his meet, a landing in the zone was a
10 and landing outside the zone was a zero without regard for the
published landing sequence.

IMO - There urgently needs to an amendment to the rules doing one of
these three things...

1-Put it back the way it was.  
2-Keep the landing/takeoff sequence but allow it to be scored normally.
3-Eliminate the landing and takeoff as a scored maneuver entirely.

IMHO I like option 2 above best, option 1 second, and option 3 is worst.
If you are in favor of option 3, you should go to an IMAC event and
watch those guys takeoff and land, you'll see what an unscored
takeoff/landing looks like..:)

The current push toward certifying and ranking judges, and the doctrine
being preached to the newcomers to judge per the rules and only per the
rules has the potential to make pattern flying into a premier class of
competition for fair judging that acccurately asseses the quality of
pilots skills relative to the standard.  Having poorly thought out rules
such as this new landing/takeoff that requires a CD to modify them at a
contest because they cannot be clarified to a point where accurate
judging can be done goes against all that is good about pattern.

Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of Scott Smith
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 10:18 AM
To: discussion
Subject: RE: calling complete for new takeoff

Good question Steve!  I believe you do have to call it, but when exactly
does the takeoff finish, and the landing begin?

According to 14.6:

"14.6. In all classes, the contestant or helper must call out the
initiation and completion of the takeoff and landing maneuvers and all
maneuvering area entries and exits."

So I guess after completing the downwind turn (last maneuver described
in takeoff sequence) you call "takeoff complete", then a moment later
"entering the box"?

Same with landing..."exiting the box...begin landing"...start the upwind
turn?

Should we also assume that failure to call box exit prior to landing
would result in a 0 landing?

"Failure to correctly call an entry or exit of the maneuvering area
should result in a major downgrade of the maneuver immediately following
the failure to call."

And since it's 0 or 10....

-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Steven Maxwell
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 10:31 AM
To: discussion
Subject: calling complete for new takeoff


 So I take it that under the new rules calling complete for takeoff
isn't needed now because it would have to be done on the trim pass, same
for starting the landing because of the procedure that has to be done
now on both?


Steven Maxwell
patternrules at earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.



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