calling complete for new takeoff

[George Kennie]

FAI has been doing this for years,..........when do they make the call????????????

Lewis, Richard wrote:

> When to call the takeoff/landing and the required downgrade is a good
> question ...I think you have to call it as described by Scott below...
>
> The new takeoff/landing sequences are a poor manifestation of the what I
> think was intended.  I think the intent was to simply eliminate scoring
> takeoffs and landings, but in the process of writing the rules, a whole
> other problem was created.  It could be very difficult for sportsman
> pilot and even many higher ranking pilots to get scored on these
> maneuvers if they are judged by the book.  These are strictly defined
> maneuvers with NO room for any error at all...If judged per the written
> rule, some pretty subtle, otherwise benign deviations should yield a
> zero scores since any downgrade at all must result in a zero.  If you
> think the new landing procedure is weird, try the intermediate sequence
> where the last maneuver is downwind, it opens even more points for
> discussion and even seems to contradict the rule allowing a maximum of
> two passes after takeoff and before landing.
>
> This was discussed at our judging seminar taught in Houston, and all he
> could do is read the rule as written and agree that it needed
> clarification.  At our first contest this year, judging these maneuvers
> came up at the pilots meeting.  After considerable discussion with no
> concensus with regard to the clarification of the rule and how it should
> be judged, the CD decided that for his meet, a landing in the zone was a
> 10 and landing outside the zone was a zero without regard for the
> published landing sequence.
>
> IMO - There urgently needs to an amendment to the rules doing one of
> these three things...
>
> 1-Put it back the way it was.
> 2-Keep the landing/takeoff sequence but allow it to be scored normally.
> 3-Eliminate the landing and takeoff as a scored maneuver entirely.
>
> IMHO I like option 2 above best, option 1 second, and option 3 is worst.
> If you are in favor of option 3, you should go to an IMAC event and
> watch those guys takeoff and land, you'll see what an unscored
> takeoff/landing looks like..:)
>
> The current push toward certifying and ranking judges, and the doctrine
> being preached to the newcomers to judge per the rules and only per the
> rules has the potential to make pattern flying into a premier class of
> competition for fair judging that acccurately asseses the quality of
> pilots skills relative to the standard.  Having poorly thought out rules
> such as this new landing/takeoff that requires a CD to modify them at a
> contest because they cannot be clarified to a point where accurate
> judging can be done goes against all that is good about pattern.
>
> Richard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
> On Behalf Of Scott Smith
> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 10:18 AM
> To: discussion
> Subject: RE: calling complete for new takeoff
>
> Good question Steve!  I believe you do have to call it, but when exactly
> does the takeoff finish, and the landing begin?
>
> According to 14.6:
>
> "14.6. In all classes, the contestant or helper must call out the
> initiation and completion of the takeoff and landing maneuvers and all
> maneuvering area entries and exits."
>
> So I guess after completing the downwind turn (last maneuver described
> in takeoff sequence) you call "takeoff complete", then a moment later
> "entering the box"?
>
> Same with landing..."exiting the box...begin landing"...start the upwind
> turn?
>
> Should we also assume that failure to call box exit prior to landing
> would result in a 0 landing?
>
> "Failure to correctly call an entry or exit of the maneuvering area
> should result in a major downgrade of the maneuver immediately following
> the failure to call."
>
> And since it's 0 or 10....
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Steven Maxwell
> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 10:31 AM
> To: discussion
> Subject: calling complete for new takeoff
>
>  So I take it that under the new rules calling complete for takeoff
> isn't needed now because it would have to be done on the trim pass, same
> for starting the landing because of the procedure that has to be done
> now on both?
>
> Steven Maxwell
> patternrules at earthlink.net
> EarthLink Revolves Around You.
>
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