Lawsuit Update

Mon Mar 21 10:10:21 AKST 2005

I've dealt with, retained, and been part of retaining attorney's in the 
last five years regarding family law and immigration issues.  Not in ONE 
instance was I ever impressed or helped by their performance.  I'll try 
and cut to the chase:  if you have a PERSONAL relationship with an 
attorney that specializes in your particular area of interest or need, 
then you will probably be safe to hire/retain their services.  If you are 
just flipping through the phone book, you will definitely be screwed. 
Being an attorney must be great, because at the inception of the 
"contract" or "retaining", they do not guarantee a single thing or 
outcome, nor can they even guarantee what their involvement will be - 
using the caveat that they must first understand the whole case.  The 
attorney is mostly an exquisite salesman.  The attorneys happen to know 
the "vocabulary" (notice I did not say language or case-law) of law which 
they will use to impress upon you that you will be:  outmatched, unable to 
understand, unable to answer, buried in paperwork, or subject to 
consequences "greater" than that if you have them on your side.  The 
attorney is the only one that really wins in most cases.  They win, and 
get paid whether or not they make a mistake.  Yes, attorneys make 
mistakes.  The bad part is, is that if they incorrectly "answer" the 
claims filed against you or your group, the judge will still render a 
decision or deny their motion.  If this happens, your first and only 
chance to "get-it-right" is over!  Now, you must "appeal" your case at 
which time standards of evidence, or levels of investigation might be 
higher.  When you discover that in deed, your attorney did file motions 
incorrectly, or base his/her motions on invalid case law, the judge does 
not say, "... yes dear citizen, I realize your attorney filed an incorrect 
motion, so we will let you have a do-over.  Come back tomorrow and we will 
pretend today did not happen."  No,, I've seen the judge actually let the 
attorneys file what were incorrect motions, then use "your" day in court, 
which "you" pay for, as an opportunity to scold the errant attorney.  Then 
that attorney just files another motion, and "you" pay for another day in 
court.

Here is the deal:  Law and courts are an "industry" in which the average 
citizen does not hold the key and in which we are nearly prevented from 
entering.  The administration of your day in court is driven by the 
personality of the judge and his scheduling system.  The attorneys know 
this, and know that their personal future in this industrial-system is 
based on their perception by these judges, and not necessarily by winning 
or losing cases.  Real life is not what you see on TV.  You are not 
entitled to a fair or equal law-industry.  Your case, your justice, your 
level of penalty, is not based on the facts of the case at all.  Instead, 
they are based on the presentation of these circumstances to the judge. 
The function of the judge is not to administer what we would consider 
"fairness" to each party, rather to act as referee to the arguing 
attorneys.  Even if the judge knows exactly what must be said or done that 
would ultimately give you the participant justice, they will not provide 
this information to the attorneys.  Fair?  Not at all. 

It is my observation that there are several tiers of law and justice.  The 
very LOWEST level of competency is the only one most people can afford. 
You, as a participant in the great halls of justice, are not guaranteed 
ANYTHING just because you hired an attorney.  Nor do you have to hire an 
attorney just because the other side did.  While most of us would say 
that, "we don't have the time to represent ourselves," I would say that 
you can not afford NOT to  - at least, even if you hire an attorney, you 
are still responsible for your own justice and should do everything 
possible to out-think and out-research the other side.  If you leave this 
up to the average attorney, you will be the loser, while they get paid. If 
you are not actually paying for a "firm" to represent you, then all the 
"research" is going to be done by the attorney himself, for all the cases 
they represent.  Attorneys have access to law databases that you will 
probably not gain access to you.  They do a quick internet/database search 
and spend a few minutes trying to find a "similar" (probably not exact) 
case, then use their computer to print out a "ready-to-file" motion that 
has some fill-in-the-blank lines.  Again, "you" are responsible for the 
outcome.  (all is my opinion).

Jim

"Norm500" <Norm500 at comcast.net> 
Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org
03/21/2005 12:43 PM
Please respond to
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Subject
Re: Lawsuit Update

The one time my business was taken to small claims court by a 
customer, (in New Mexico), I consulted with my lawyer before going 
to court.  His recommendation was that I didn't need him in the 
small claims court, but if I lost, then he would represent me in 
an appeal which is apparently more formal.  I won BTW so didn't 
need him.  I do think it prudent to check with a lawyer and get 
his advice before going to court however.

Norm

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gray E Fowler" <gfowler at raytheon.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 9:17 AM
Subject: Lawsuit Update

>I met with other club officials Saturday morning and here is what 
>we are
> doing.
>
> There was much discussion on whether to get a lawyer or not. 
> Some fear
> that in Small claims in front of a JP, which by the way ignores 
> all normal
> court rules, a lawyer would piss off the JP. This lady does not 
> have a
> lawyer because she cannot really afford one.  We are calling all 
> current
> club members and asking if they have had any interaction with 
> this lady
>
> 1. Are you aware of anyone crashing on or near her property.
> 2. Did she come over to our property and fall and break her arm
>
> We are filing a response today denying all claims of trespassing 
> and the
> breaking of her arm. Included in our response will be the prior 
> history
> with this lady which includes
>
> 1. A face to face meeting with the County Managers who reveiwed 
> our club
> documents.
> 2. A live noise demo that resulted in the County stating in 
> writing that a
> noise problem does not exist and that they recognize that the 
> flying
> boundaries are for reference only, and that occasional overflys 
> do happen
> by accident and it is not a problem.
> 3. Repeated Sherrif visits from her complaints, where as no 
> action is ever
> taken.
> 4. Results from County Commisioners court in front of a judge, 
> whereas her
> claims were dismissed.
>
> The JP will then make a decision on whether or not to hear this 
> case. Our
> club members really think our response will end this, I do not.
> I feel that our club members, like 90% of the rest of the world 
> are
> fearful of lawyers. Most view lawyers as an expensive solution 
> that they
> have no control of. When you hire a lawyer, and go to court, you 
> are in a
> very "specialty" situation that frankly the average citizen does 
> not
> comprehend, nor can properly react to.  I think we (my club)are 
> absolute
> fools for not getting  a lawyer. The Club Pres has said if  the 
> JP accepts
> this case we will reconsider obtaining a lawyer. My polling of 
> club
> members indicates that people who are against a lawyer have 
> never retianed
> a lawyer, but they sure hate them. A few that are for it have 
> had a lawyer
> and see the benefits. Of couse the AMA told us to deny all 
> claims and not
> to get a lawyer. They willn help us if this got out of hand, but 
> not right
> now.
> I find it absurd to believe that a JP would get pissed off that 
> we brought
> a lawyer. Hey! We are talking about $5000! I would think that 
> the JP would
> think we are idiots for NOT having a lawyer. I see this as a 
> method for
> ending this lady's claims now and forever. I think we should go 
> after her
> in writing for OUR court costs which include legal fees. I never 
> expect
> restitution but I do want her to know that we take this serious 
> and will
> fight her to the bitter end. He has has most cash wins, and in 
> this case
> we have much more cash. We can spend $1000 in lawyer fees now 
> and be done
> with it.
>
> I would bet that MOST of you out there who have been to court 
> with a
> lawyer are with me and those of you who have never have been to 
> court are
> against my thoughts.   There is a wild card, which is JP court. 
> Anything
> goes, and for that reason I realize I could be wrong.
>
> So we are posting a denial of all claims today.
>
> On trespassing...one of of members is a Plano Cop. Here is the 
> Police and
> court take on Trespassing. Posted or not posted means nothing. 
> You can
> step on anyones property at any time. If the owner asks you to 
> leave, you
> must leave and be given the chance to leave. To make it legal, 
> and hold up
> in court, a police office must witness this exchange. Now I am 
> sure that
> if she tells a person to get off in January and a cop (or other 
> witness)
> is there and you show up again in Feb and once again witnessed, 
> then you
> are trespassing. Flying over her trailer is not trespassing.
>
>
>
> Gray Fowler
> Principal Chemical Engineer
> Composites Engineering 

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