Electric Weight: with or without batteries at US Nationals

MKMSG mkmsg at cox.net
Mon Jun 13 20:48:43 AKDT 2005 

Richard: Even with brake off, my Hacker is always receiving some power even 
at the lowest throttle stick position.  If you're flying with a C50 14XL 
Hacker and a 22 x 12 APC, I don't see how you can get through the pattern if 
you are using a 3200 LiPo.  Even if you somehow used very good throttle 
management to expend the least amount of energy per flight, you would still 
be pushing a 3200 pack to the edge of its capability and under those 
circumstances, it wouldn't last very long.  The harder you push LiPos, the 
shorter their lifespan.  Not withstanding the size of your LiPo pack, there 
are other reasons you could be drawing too much current per flight. 
Examples include too large a prop for the motor (not sure what motor you 
have), defective cells in the pack, a motor which was overheated (will 
result in demagetization which, in turn, raises the current draw), overly 
aggressive throttle use.  You should be checking the current draw at full 
throttle about every 5 flights or so with a watt meter and checking the rpm 
as well.  If all of a sudden the numbers change, it's an indication 
something is not right.

Mike
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Strickland" <richard.s at allied-callaway.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Weight: with or without batteries at US Nationals


> Mike,
>
> FMA/Kokam have Discharge Protection Modules to keep us from discharging 
> too
> much--it reads the low cell and pulses to let you know you are close. I
> tried 'brake off' yesterday and surprisingly got LESS time.  I wonder if 
> you
> are drawing the whole time the prop spins or I was just flying more far 
> and
> wide--going to take more experimenting--but it started to pulse on the way
> up on the half sq. b/4 the spins--that's too darn close! Do you like it 
> one
> way or the other?
>
> Richard
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MKMSG" <mkmsg at cox.net>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 3:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Electric Weight: with or without batteries at US Nationals
>
>
>> Richard:  I draw about 68 amps at WOT with a 22 x12 APE.  I normally set
> my
>> timer for 9 minutes and activate it just before advancing the throttle 
>> for
>> takeoff.  By the time I get back on the ground, it has been around 9.5
>> minutes and I normally have to put 4400 ma back into the packs using my
>> Astro 109s.  I also have a C50 12xl in a Yak 54.  It also draws 68 amps 
>> at
>> WOT using a 20 x 13 APC and consumes 4400 ma in 9.5 minutes.  One has to
> be
>> careful not to drain these LiPo packs too close to their end point. 
>> While
>> they may perform OK, their longevity will be reduced and that translates
> to
>> more $ for new, expensive packs.  One of my TP 5S3P 6000 packs recently
>> puffed after only 12 flights.  Luckily, TP took good care of me and
> replaced
>> the bad pack for free.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Richard Strickland" <richard.s at allied-callaway.com>
>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 12:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: Electric Weight: with or without batteries at US Nationals
>>
>>
>> > Mike,
>> >
>> > What kind of flight times are you getting?  We're at 7.5 -8 minutes 
>> > with
>> > the
>> > 3200s which is real iffy toward the end(particularly if the CD says to
>> > orbit).  The prototype balancing charger that is due shortly supposedly
>> > will
>> > give us another 10% which for us weight challanged guys(more ways than
>> > one)
>> > will make these a little more solid for contests and making weight. 
>> > Are
>> > you
>> > running brake on or off?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Richard
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "MKMSG" <mkmsg at cox.net>
>> > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:56 AM
>> > Subject: Re: Electric Weight: with or without batteries at US Nationals
>> >
>> >
>> >> The new 5300 TP is configured as a 5S4P.  The 10S setup (two TP 5300
>> >> packs
>> >> in series) would be 39.4 oz. which is a bit lighter than the TP 5S3P
> 6000
>> >> packs I've been using.
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Richard Strickland" <richard.s at allied-callaway.com>
>> >> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 10:33 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: Electric Weight: with or without batteries at US 
>> >> Nationals
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Would that be 5 or 10?
>> >> >
>> >> > RS
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "MKMSG" <mkmsg at cox.net>
>> >> > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> >> > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 6:52 PM
>> >> > Subject: Re: Electric Weight: with or without batteries at US
> Nationals
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> My 5300 pack weighs 19.7 oz.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mike Moritko
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: "Adam Glatt" <adam.g at sasktel.net>
>> >> >> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> >> >> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 3:57 PM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: Electric Weight: with or without batteries at US
>> >> >> Nationals
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > We don't have an accurate scale at work, so the only figures I
> have
>> > are
>> >> >> > direct from Thunder Power's website:
>> >> >> > http://thunderpower-batteries.com/html/batteries.html
>> >> >> > showing 560 grams each.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > -Adam
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Richard Strickland wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>Hey Adam,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>How much does a set weigh with any associated harness?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Thanks,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Richard
>> >> >> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >>From: "Adam Glatt" <adam.g at sasktel.net>
>> >> >> >>To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> >> >> >>Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 9:02 AM
>> >> >> >>Subject: Re: Electric Weight: with or without batteries at US
>> > Nationals
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>>Jim, the Thunder Power 5s4p 5300 pack is in stock with free
> courier
>> >> >> >>>shipping at parts.rctoys.com .
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>I'm using a 6.0v regulator (JR servos) with my 2s lipo receiver
>> > pack,
>> >> >> >>>and used a mere 290mAh in 51 minutes of flight yesterday.  My
>> >> >> >>>fellow
>> >> >> >>>team members are using Futaba servos with a 5.6v regulator, and
>> > seeing
>> >> >> >>>50-60mAh per a 10 minute flight.  You can definitely cut 
>> >> >> >>>receiver
>> >> >> >>>battery weight.  My TP 2s730 weighs 31g.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>BTW, in Canada we changed our rules this year such that electric
>> >> > pattern
>> >> >> >>>planes are weighed without the battery that powers the motor.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>If you want a killer deal on the 2s730 with a 5300 order, ask 
>> >> >> >>>for
>> >> >> >>>me
>> >> >> >>>;>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>-Adam
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>Jim_Woodward at beaerospace.com wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>>RS - Although I have taken GREAT care with the airframe weight
> of
>> > the
>> >> >> >>>>Impact, I have used a non-exotic equipment list, so I am at 11
>> >> >> >>>>lbs,
>> >> >> >>>>4.5 oz with 6000 mah TP packs (2, 5S,3P).  I did not use
> aluminum
>> >> >> >>>>wheel axles, nor replace the wheel pants, nor replace the heavy
>> > wing
>> >> >> >>>>tube.  Also, I used the Futaba 9152 monster servo for the
> rudder.
>> >> >> >>>> Also, I'm using the stock steel prop nut and spinner jam nut.
>> >> >> >>>> So,
>> > I
>> >> >> >>>>used very standard equipment, and still came close to making 
>> >> >> >>>>the
>> >> >> >>>>weight.  A quick solution is to purchase (if available), the
> 5300
>> > mah
>> >> >> >>>>packs, which in itself drops 4-5 oz I've heard.  Dropping even 
>> >> >> >>>>5
>> >> >> >>>>oz
>> >> >> >>>>may be possible just with some equipment changes.  The airframe
>> >> >> >>>>really
>> >> >> >>>>not going to get any lighter, except some more trimming of the
>> >> >> >>>>chin
>> >> >> >>>>cowl flanges.  I'm happy with the build and got close to the
>> >> >> >>>>weight
>> >> >> >>>>limit with a very standard equipment set.  Also, using the 2
> cell
>> >> >> >>>>Li-ion, 2200 mah battery.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>I've heard that they may change the electric weighing 
>> >> >> >>>>procedures
>> > such
>> >> >> >>>>that the battery is removed at this years nats, but looking for
>> >> >> >>>>confirmation before I spend a bunch more cash.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>Thanks,
>> >> >> >>>>Jim
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>James Woodward
>> >> >> >>>>Program Manager
>> >> >> >>>>B/E Aerospace Business Jet Group - Miami
>> >> >> >>>>9100 N.W. 105th Circle
>> >> >> >>>>Miami, FL 33178
>> >> >> >>>>(305) 459-7155  Office
>> >> >> >>>>(305) 459-7185  Fax
>> >> >> >>>>(954) 319-0873  Cellular
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>*"Richard Strickland" <richard.s at allied-callaway.com>*
>> >> >> >>>>Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>06/10/2005 09:31 AM
>> >> >> >>>>Please respond to
>> >> >> >>>>discussion at nsrca.org
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>To
>> >> >> >>>><discussion at nsrca.org>
>> >> >> >>>>cc
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>Subject
>> >> >> >>>>Re: Electric Weight: with or without batteries at UN Nationals
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>ALUMINUM servo screws?  Man, you must REALLY be close!?!
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>RS
>> >> >> >>>>----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >>>>*From:* _Jim_Woodward at beaerospace.com_
>> >> >> >>>><mailto:Jim_Woodward at beaerospace.com>
>> >> >> >>>>*To:* _discussion at nsrca.org_ <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
>> >> >> >>>>*Sent:* Friday, June 10, 2005 7:56 AM
>> >> >> >>>>*Subject:* Electric Weight: with or without batteries at UN
>> > Nationals
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>Hi All,
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>Does anyone happen to know what the weighing policy will be for
>> >> >> >>>>electric planes at the nats (with or without batteries)?
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>Also - does anyone know the source for aluminum servo screws?
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>Thanks,
>> >> >> >>>>Jim W.
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
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