Judge Feedback

[Wayne Galligan]

Got it Gray................... inside the box.   I guess I am just to used to.....
"Thinking outside of the BOX"

WG
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gray E Fowler 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 8:25 AM
  Subject: Re: Judge Feedback



  What you need to dig baby is the term......"you are about to fly outta the box". At this point in the flight a proper response would be to at least start your turnaround as opposed to saying..".No I am not".



  Gray Fowler
  Principal Chemical Engineer
  Composites Engineering 


       "Wayne Galligan" <wgalligan at goodsonacura.com> 
        Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org 
        01/12/2005 05:21 PM 
        Please respond to discussion 

               
                To:        <discussion at nsrca.org> 
                cc:         
                Subject:        Re: Judge Feedback 



  I understand Bernoulli's principle and things like power to weight ratio, drag limiting and inducing parameters, I.C. and electronic movement devices... but words like  up/down.....come on... why does it have to be sooo hard? 
    
  WG 
    
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Pastorello 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 5:03 PM 
  Subject: Re: Judge Feedback 

  He ignores you cuz you use big words, like 
  "Up" 
  "Down" 
  "left" 
  "Right" 
    
  You have to get to his level, Pard.... <BG> 

  Bob Pastorello
  NSRCA 199  AMA 46373
  rcaerobob at cox.net
  www.rcaerobats.net 
    
    
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gray E Fowler 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:29 PM 
  Subject: Re: Judge Feedback 


  Earl, 

  Perhaps Wayne will listen to you....he ignores my input.....



  Gray Fowler
  Principal Chemical Engineer
  Composites Engineering 

       "Wayne Galligan" <wgalligan at goodsonacura.com> 
        Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org 
        01/12/2005 02:06 PM 
        Please respond to discussion 
               
               To:        <discussion at nsrca.org> 
               cc:         
               Subject:        Re: Judge Feedback 




  Earl, 
   
  You have valid points  as does Keith.  I have to agree with Keith here on a few points.  Mainly being that I practice by myself with little or no mentoring just because its not there.  SO... I learn more in 3 days at a contest then I do in month of practice on my own.     
   
  Meet me and Keith in WACO some weekend and we will gladly take you up on the mentoring thing. :-)   
   
  Your friendly advanced participants. .  ;-) 
   
  Wayne G 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Earl Haury 
  To: Discussion List, NSRCA 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:15 AM 
  Subject: Judge Feedback 

  Here are some considerations regarding judges providing feedback to competitors the we should address. 
   
  The key word is "competitors". Judges score individuals performances in competitions that are held to ascertain the relative skills of competitors to perform according to stated rules and descriptions. Being a competition - one should assume that flyers present their patterns to the unbiased judge sets and the let scores describe the ranking. 
   
  The presumption is that the competitors arrive prepared to compete. Those who have worked the hardest on this preparation will (and should) generally excel. A pattern contest isn't intended to be a training ground, but a review of achievement and peer comparison. Judges who provide feedback have good intentions, but there are questions that deserve attention. Isn't the job of the judge to provide the correct score for each maneuver? Is it appropriate for the judge to (mis)direct attention to make notations for post flight feedback? Will the feedback be consistent to all competitors, or "buddy biased"? Is it fair to my competition for judges to point out my errors so that I can correct them in subsequent flights? If judges with largely different scores on a specific maneuver offer feedback and disagree - then what? In the latter, will this disagreement influence a judge to change standards mid-round? Wha! t if some wish to discuss fe! edback, or argue with it, at the expense of  delaying the next flight?  What if this agitates the judges and you're next up? 
   
  I realize that the gist of the feedback issue is to benefit the newbie, but the above points apply here also. We seem to accept that anyone, without practice or proper equipment or preparation (reading the rules), should be able to fly successfully in some form of "beginner" class. This doesn't happen - and we've fiddled with the rules of the beginner class for years to little avail. Unfortunately, the judges feedback at a contest isn't going to help the unprepared. What will help is mentoring - but not from the judges chair! 
   
  The best place to help the newbie is at the practice field where everything can be addressed. Coach these folks, provide feedback and assistance. Judge flights, take notes, and critique. Help trim their airplane, be supportive with equipment maintenance, etc. Get them prepared for those first contests, call for them, critique their flights, evaluate their scores, help them in every way as a coach and friend, and pattern will gain in numbers. Just don't do this from the judges chair - judging is the only job then. 
   
  Earl 
   
   


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