Judge Feedback

[Gray E Fowler]

What you need to dig baby is the term......"you are about to fly outta the 
box". At this point in the flight a proper response would be to at least 
start your turnaround as opposed to saying..".No I am not".



Gray Fowler
Principal Chemical Engineer
Composites Engineering




"Wayne Galligan" <wgalligan at goodsonacura.com>
Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org
01/12/2005 05:21 PM
Please respond to discussion

 
        To:     <discussion at nsrca.org>
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: Judge Feedback


I understand Bernoulli's principle and things like power to weight ratio, 
drag limiting and inducing parameters, I.C. and electronic movement 
devices... but words like  up/down.....come on... why does it have to be 
sooo hard?
 
WG
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bob Pastorello 
To: discussion at nsrca.org 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Judge Feedback

He ignores you cuz you use big words, like
"Up"
"Down"
"left"
"Right"
 
You have to get to his level, Pard.... <BG>

Bob Pastorello
NSRCA 199  AMA 46373
rcaerobob at cox.net
www.rcaerobats.net
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Gray E Fowler 
To: discussion at nsrca.org 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Judge Feedback


Earl, 

Perhaps Wayne will listen to you....he ignores my input.....



Gray Fowler
Principal Chemical Engineer
Composites Engineering 



"Wayne Galligan" <wgalligan at goodsonacura.com> 
Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org 
01/12/2005 02:06 PM 
Please respond to discussion 
        
        To:        <discussion at nsrca.org> 
        cc:         
        Subject:        Re: Judge Feedback



Earl, 
  
You have valid points  as does Keith.  I have to agree with Keith here on 
a few points.  Mainly being that I practice by myself with little or no 
mentoring just because its not there.  SO... I learn more in 3 days at a 
contest then I do in month of practice on my own.     
  
Meet me and Keith in WACO some weekend and we will gladly take you up on 
the mentoring thing. :-)   
  
Your friendly advanced participants. .  ;-) 
  
Wayne G 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Earl Haury 
To: Discussion List, NSRCA 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:15 AM 
Subject: Judge Feedback 

Here are some considerations regarding judges providing feedback to 
competitors the we should address. 
  
The key word is "competitors". Judges score individuals performances in 
competitions that are held to ascertain the relative skills of competitors 
to perform according to stated rules and descriptions. Being a competition 
- one should assume that flyers present their patterns to the unbiased 
judge sets and the let scores describe the ranking. 
  
The presumption is that the competitors arrive prepared to compete. Those 
who have worked the hardest on this preparation will (and should) 
generally excel. A pattern contest isn't intended to be a training ground, 
but a review of achievement and peer comparison. Judges who provide 
feedback have good intentions, but there are questions that deserve 
attention. Isn't the job of the judge to provide the correct score for 
each maneuver? Is it appropriate for the judge to (mis)direct attention to 
make notations for post flight feedback? Will the feedback be consistent 
to all competitors, or "buddy biased"? Is it fair to my competition for 
judges to point out my errors so that I can correct them in subsequent 
flights? If judges with largely different scores on a specific maneuver 
offer feedback and disagree - then what? In the latter, will this 
disagreement influence a judge to change standards mid-round? Wha! t if some wish to discuss 
feedback, or argue with it, at the expense of  delaying the next flight? 
What if this agitates the judges and you're next up? 
  
I realize that the gist of the feedback issue is to benefit the newbie, 
but the above points apply here also. We seem to accept that anyone, 
without practice or proper equipment or preparation (reading the rules), 
should be able to fly successfully in some form of "beginner" class. This 
doesn't happen - and we've fiddled with the rules of the beginner class 
for years to little avail. Unfortunately, the judges feedback at a contest 
isn't going to help the unprepared. What will help is mentoring - but not 
from the judges chair! 
  
The best place to help the newbie is at the practice field where 
everything can be addressed. Coach these folks, provide feedback and 
assistance. Judge flights, take notes, and critique. Help trim their 
airplane, be supportive with equipment maintenance, etc. Get them prepared 
for those first contests, call for them, critique their flights, evaluate 
their scores, help them in every way as a coach and friend, and pattern 
will gain in numbers. Just don't do this from the judges chair - judging 
is the only job then. 
  
Earl 
 
 


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