Judging and FAI P-05 and F-05

[Don Szczur]

Another question-

With regard to the reverse knife edge, exit inverted in the F05 pattern,
center is the transitions points between knife edges?

thanks much,
Don
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Ramsey" <donramsey at cox-internet.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Judging and FAI P-05 and F-05


> I couldn't agree more with Troy that the pilots should be aware of how
they
> are being graded.  That's why I do what I do.  I don't care which is
correct
> as far as the spin goes but I do want all contestants and judges to be
aware
> of how it will be judged at the major (all) contests and how it should be
> flown in front of a world panel.  For the Team Selection Finals at the
NATS
> this year as well as the NATS F3A Finals last year I will use a powerpoint
> presentation of printed slides for the pilots and judges just before the
> first round so everyone is on the same page.  As always, all pilots are
> invited to the presentation.
>
> Hopefully I'll have an answer for the spin soon.
>
> Don
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Troy Newman" <troy_newman at msn.com>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:53 PM
> Subject: RE: Judging and FAI P-05 and F-05
>
>
> > My comment was that we in the USA are judging the spin that model is
> crabbed
> > into the wind.
> >
> > The TEAM Selection last year, NATS last year and so on the pilots were
> told
> > that the crab was OK. The
> >
> > AMA rules indicate the model must maitain the crab angle and not drift
> until
> > the stall occurs.  BUT The FAI rules tell us..... as the model slows and
> > before it stalls the maintaning of the crab angle becomes determental to
> the
> > geometry of the manuever. Since the model is in a near stalled condition
> it
> > the wind drift is OK! Its the crabbing into the wind that makes the
spins
> > look funny and often sometimes hard to judge...This is extreme
conditions.
> > Now I would also acknowledge that drifting out to 300meters makes it
tough
> > to judge too!
> >
> >
> > So the model fuse basically stays square (parralell in this case) to the
> > flight line all the time...as the model approaches the stall break in
the
> > spin.
> >
> > I'm not pushing for one over the other in terms of what is correct. I am
> > pushing that FAI needs to be judged on a standard at least equal to if
not
> > better than it is everywhere else in the world. The rules are what they
> are
> > and input beyond that is not fair to the pilot expected to fly it.
> >
> >
> > These power point documents were actually produced by Bob Skinner the
> > chairman of the CIAM committee for F3A. He is from South Africa I
believe.
> >
> > They were posted on the British site. Bob also made similar documents
for
> > the 2003 sequences.
> >
> > Troy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Marty King <mking46516 at yahoo.com>
> > >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > >Subject: RE: Judging and FAI P-05 and F-05
> > >Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:24:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Troy,
> > >
> > >When you say differences is this not what all FAI judges world wide are
> > >using? Or are you refering to how FAI and our current AMA rules differ?
> Or
> > >are the Brits feeding us wrong information?
> > >
> > >Marty King
> > >NSRCA 2551
> > >
> > >Troy Newman <troy_newman at msn.com> wrote:
> > >notice that in FAI spin entry is judging is not crabbed into the
> > >wind...Model Remain parallel.
> > >
> > >Also that there are some other differences like roll rates need not be
> > >constant in manuevers with varibale roll combos where there is only one
> > >type
> > >of a certain segment...example 4/8pt-slow roll oposite....but in a 3/4
> slow
> > >rolls in opposite they need to be the same.
> > >
> > >Also the sq loop with 1/2's up and dn and 2/4's on top and btm...the
> 1/2's
> > >match and the 2/4's match.
> > >
> > >Just a couple little nuggets...there are lots of little differences.
> > >
> > >TN
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Marty King
> > > >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >Subject: Judging and FAI P-05 and F-05
> > > >Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:45:18 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >I found this on the RC Canada board. These are power point
> presentations
> > >on
> > > >Judging and the maneuvers for FAI. I found them very informative and
a
> > >good
> > > >refresher. Those of you holding judging schools may want to review or
> use
> > > >these. They were created by the Great Britain Aerobatic Association.
> They
> > > >can be copied and saved to you local PC or laptop. You may need the
> > > >additional fonts that are listed. My XP box didn't.
> > > >
> > > >http://members.shaw.ca/teamcanadaf3a/powerpoint/judgepres.ppt
> > > >
> > > >http://members.shaw.ca/teamcanadaf3a/powerpoint/FAIpres.ppt
> > > >
> > > >http://members.shaw.ca/teamcanadaf3a/powerpoint/fonts.zip
> > > >
> > > >I hope you take the time to view these,
> > > >
> > > >Marty King
> > > >NSRCA 2551
> > > >D-4
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >---------------------------------
> > > >Do you Yahoo!?
> > > >Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2'
> > >
> > >
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