Judging and FAI P-05 and F-05

[Don Ramsey]

The reverse knife edge center is the upright portion of flight between the
knife edge points.

Don

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Szczur" <dszczur at maranatha.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: Judging and FAI P-05 and F-05


> Another question-
>
> With regard to the reverse knife edge, exit inverted in the F05 pattern,
> center is the transitions points between knife edges?
>
> thanks much,
> Don
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Don Ramsey" <donramsey at cox-internet.com>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Judging and FAI P-05 and F-05
>
>
> > I couldn't agree more with Troy that the pilots should be aware of how
> they
> > are being graded.  That's why I do what I do.  I don't care which is
> correct
> > as far as the spin goes but I do want all contestants and judges to be
> aware
> > of how it will be judged at the major (all) contests and how it should
be
> > flown in front of a world panel.  For the Team Selection Finals at the
> NATS
> > this year as well as the NATS F3A Finals last year I will use a
powerpoint
> > presentation of printed slides for the pilots and judges just before the
> > first round so everyone is on the same page.  As always, all pilots are
> > invited to the presentation.
> >
> > Hopefully I'll have an answer for the spin soon.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Troy Newman" <troy_newman at msn.com>
> > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:53 PM
> > Subject: RE: Judging and FAI P-05 and F-05
> >
> >
> > > My comment was that we in the USA are judging the spin that model is
> > crabbed
> > > into the wind.
> > >
> > > The TEAM Selection last year, NATS last year and so on the pilots were
> > told
> > > that the crab was OK. The
> > >
> > > AMA rules indicate the model must maitain the crab angle and not drift
> > until
> > > the stall occurs.  BUT The FAI rules tell us..... as the model slows
and
> > > before it stalls the maintaning of the crab angle becomes determental
to
> > the
> > > geometry of the manuever. Since the model is in a near stalled
condition
> > it
> > > the wind drift is OK! Its the crabbing into the wind that makes the
> spins
> > > look funny and often sometimes hard to judge...This is extreme
> conditions.
> > > Now I would also acknowledge that drifting out to 300meters makes it
> tough
> > > to judge too!
> > >
> > >
> > > So the model fuse basically stays square (parralell in this case) to
the
> > > flight line all the time...as the model approaches the stall break in
> the
> > > spin.
> > >
> > > I'm not pushing for one over the other in terms of what is correct. I
am
> > > pushing that FAI needs to be judged on a standard at least equal to if
> not
> > > better than it is everywhere else in the world. The rules are what
they
> > are
> > > and input beyond that is not fair to the pilot expected to fly it.
> > >
> > >
> > > These power point documents were actually produced by Bob Skinner the
> > > chairman of the CIAM committee for F3A. He is from South Africa I
> believe.
> > >
> > > They were posted on the British site. Bob also made similar documents
> for
> > > the 2003 sequences.
> > >
> > > Troy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Marty King <mking46516 at yahoo.com>
> > > >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >Subject: RE: Judging and FAI P-05 and F-05
> > > >Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:24:29 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >Troy,
> > > >
> > > >When you say differences is this not what all FAI judges world wide
are
> > > >using? Or are you refering to how FAI and our current AMA rules
differ?
> > Or
> > > >are the Brits feeding us wrong information?
> > > >
> > > >Marty King
> > > >NSRCA 2551
> > > >
> > > >Troy Newman <troy_newman at msn.com> wrote:
> > > >notice that in FAI spin entry is judging is not crabbed into the
> > > >wind...Model Remain parallel.
> > > >
> > > >Also that there are some other differences like roll rates need not
be
> > > >constant in manuevers with varibale roll combos where there is only
one
> > > >type
> > > >of a certain segment...example 4/8pt-slow roll oposite....but in a
3/4
> > slow
> > > >rolls in opposite they need to be the same.
> > > >
> > > >Also the sq loop with 1/2's up and dn and 2/4's on top and btm...the
> > 1/2's
> > > >match and the 2/4's match.
> > > >
> > > >Just a couple little nuggets...there are lots of little differences.
> > > >
> > > >TN
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Marty King
> > > > >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > > >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > > >Subject: Judging and FAI P-05 and F-05
> > > > >Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:45:18 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >
> > > > >I found this on the RC Canada board. These are power point
> > presentations
> > > >on
> > > > >Judging and the maneuvers for FAI. I found them very informative
and
> a
> > > >good
> > > > >refresher. Those of you holding judging schools may want to review
or
> > use
> > > > >these. They were created by the Great Britain Aerobatic
Association.
> > They
> > > > >can be copied and saved to you local PC or laptop. You may need the
> > > > >additional fonts that are listed. My XP box didn't.
> > > > >
> > > > >http://members.shaw.ca/teamcanadaf3a/powerpoint/judgepres.ppt
> > > > >
> > > > >http://members.shaw.ca/teamcanadaf3a/powerpoint/FAIpres.ppt
> > > > >
> > > > >http://members.shaw.ca/teamcanadaf3a/powerpoint/fonts.zip
> > > > >
> > > > >I hope you take the time to view these,
> > > > >
> > > > >Marty King
> > > > >NSRCA 2551
> > > > >D-4
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >---------------------------------
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> > > >
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