FW: Proper Distance

[Bill Glaze]

Matt:
Another thing I noticed was that some of the pilots were "bumping" the 
point slightly; it looked as if they might have been doing it on 
purpose.  By "bumping" I mean intentionally over-rolling a very few 
degrees, then returning to exactly the right angle of bank nearly 
instantly.  Did anyone else notice?
Bill Glaze

Rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote:

> I was on site 1 Wednesday evening after the Masters flying was over 
> for the day, when the F3A Finalists started their practice sessions on 
> site 3. Originally, F3A Finals was to be flown on site 3 and Masters 
> on site 1, as had been done in previous years.
>  
> I was surprised to see the far side of the Rolling Circle from site 3, 
> over the runway on site 1. Folks that's around 500-600 meters or 
> around 1/4-1/3 mile from site 3's pilot station. with a diameter that 
> large, the circle circumference is pretty close to 1 mile and at the 
> typical model speed, a 45-50 second circle was being done during those 
> practice sessions.
>  
> A clearly unsafe situation could have existed if we allowed the Finals 
> to go on as originally planned. I went to site 3 and discussed the 
> observation with Don Ramsey and Dave Guerin and we switched sites for 
> the two Finals
>  
> The good news is that our TEAM members have a whole year to practice 
> this maneuver and get it looking great in the appropriate amount of 
> sky. Consider this--At a reduced speed of around 60-70 mph, and a 
> diameter of around 100-120 meters, the model must fly a circumference 
> of around 400 meters or around 1/4 mile. The maneuver will still take 
> around 15 seconds to fly
>  
> Another observation I had regarding the circle during the F3A Finals, 
> was that the roll rate was so slow that the wing tended to rachet 
> (momentarily stop rolling) on some models. As though the rudder and 
> elevator inputs were counteracting the ailerons since aileron 
> deflection was so slight. I recommend that a more defined roll rate 
> (faster) be established up front and the maneuver size adjusted to fit 
> the roll rate. Don't give the judges obvious reasons for doubt.
>  
> MattK
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
>     [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
>     tony at radiosouthrc.com
>     Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:06 AM
>     To: discussion at nsrca.org
>     Subject: Re: Proper Distance
>
>     Earl:
>
>     What a concept!  Flying within the rules gets the best score.......
>      
>     If the contestants were watching the distance out flights before
>     we started the finals, they could see that we were calibrating the
>     group to the distance that the group should start downgrading for
>     being too far out...  Flying along a line about 160-170 meters
>     would seem IDEAL....  Still, as you say, most try to fly about
>     150.... Not sure why...
>      
>      
>     Tony Stillman
>     Radio South
>     3702 N. Pace Blvd.
>     Pensacola, FL 32505
>     1-800-962-7802
>     http://www.radiosouthrc.com/
>
>         ----- Original Message -----
>         From: Earl Haury <mailto:ehaury at houston.rr.com>
>         To: Discussion List, NSRCA <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
>         Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:56 AM
>         Subject: Proper Distance
>
>         Distance in pattern has been (and still is) one of the great
>         unknowns. (Spins & snaps are the others.) There are varied
>         individual definitions of what is proper, regardless of how
>         much clarity or definition is inserted into the rules. 
>          
>         I've been around long enough to see the trend move in and out
>         several times, often the out times are well outside of the
>         rules. Then there are times when others decide that there are
>         more points in really tight! Unfortunately, distance out is
>         hard for the both the pilot and the judge to discern with
>         accuracy.
>          
>         A pilot can practice with spotters to establish a good feel
>         for distance. That "feel" comes both with visible size
>         recognition and time from box line to box line at the
>         "comfort" speed. In too close and one is rushed or must slow
>         below the "sweet spot" speed, too far out and the opposite
>         occurs. So the pilot has the opportunity to tune for his / her
>         chosen distance
>          
>         It seems that, on the judges side, there are distance police.
>         Anything that might be approaching the limit is downgraded by
>         them. Then there are others that don't downgrade if they can
>         see (or hear) something out there! More evidence that distance
>         evaluation is difficult, especially when viewing airplanes of
>         different size, visibility, and speed. Maybe the only was to
>         achieve judging accuracy regarding distance is to use a
>         "distance judge" at 175 & 200m and let them assign distance
>         downgrades? Seems that the variable application (with good
>         intentions) of distance downgrades presently experienced
>         dictate consideration of an alternative method.
>          
>         From the judges chair I find very few close in flights
>         accurate or smooth. There are usually inaccuracies brought on
>         by lack of time, box violations, and errors forced by wind.
>         The good thing about these is that they are over quickly. Out
>         flights often have better maneuvers as the pilot has more
>         time, box violations are few, and wind effect is better
>         handled (and/or less noticeable). But they do take forever and
>         the distance downgrades offset the advantages. So what to do?
>         Take a clue from the rules "for a large, highly visible model
>         aircraft a line of flight approximately 175m in front of the
>         competitor may be appropriate". Judges take note of the "in
>         front of the competitor" statement, as the judges are 7 to 10m
>         behind the competitor. This moves the acceptable flight line 7
>         to 10m further away, so 185m (from the judges) is not to be
>         downgraded for the large models (anybody seen small models
>         lately). Even the rolling circle distance issues can then be
>         handled by rolling in then. A 100 to 125m roller in would
>         still leave a 50+m buffer between the pilot and airplane.
>          
>         So - consider that the rules are OK. Big airplanes are best
>         flown at the outer range of the rules. Some judges may need
>         help in accurately assessing distance. Maybe a distance judge
>         would help. There are no benefits and more risks to flying too
>         close if to only appease "inaccurate" distance police. Hmmm -
>         imagine that, flying within the rules gets the best score..
>          
>         Earl
>
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