FW: Proper Distance
Bill Glaze
billglaze at triad.rr.com
Sat Jul 31 12:58:03 AKDT 2004
Matt:
Another thing I noticed was that some of the pilots were "bumping" the
point slightly; it looked as if they might have been doing it on
purpose. By "bumping" I mean intentionally over-rolling a very few
degrees, then returning to exactly the right angle of bank nearly
instantly. Did anyone else notice?
Bill Glaze
Rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote:
> I was on site 1 Wednesday evening after the Masters flying was over
> for the day, when the F3A Finalists started their practice sessions on
> site 3. Originally, F3A Finals was to be flown on site 3 and Masters
> on site 1, as had been done in previous years.
>
> I was surprised to see the far side of the Rolling Circle from site 3,
> over the runway on site 1. Folks that's around 500-600 meters or
> around 1/4-1/3 mile from site 3's pilot station. with a diameter that
> large, the circle circumference is pretty close to 1 mile and at the
> typical model speed, a 45-50 second circle was being done during those
> practice sessions.
>
> A clearly unsafe situation could have existed if we allowed the Finals
> to go on as originally planned. I went to site 3 and discussed the
> observation with Don Ramsey and Dave Guerin and we switched sites for
> the two Finals
>
> The good news is that our TEAM members have a whole year to practice
> this maneuver and get it looking great in the appropriate amount of
> sky. Consider this--At a reduced speed of around 60-70 mph, and a
> diameter of around 100-120 meters, the model must fly a circumference
> of around 400 meters or around 1/4 mile. The maneuver will still take
> around 15 seconds to fly
>
> Another observation I had regarding the circle during the F3A Finals,
> was that the roll rate was so slow that the wing tended to rachet
> (momentarily stop rolling) on some models. As though the rudder and
> elevator inputs were counteracting the ailerons since aileron
> deflection was so slight. I recommend that a more defined roll rate
> (faster) be established up front and the maneuver size adjusted to fit
> the roll rate. Don't give the judges obvious reasons for doubt.
>
> MattK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
> tony at radiosouthrc.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:06 AM
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: Proper Distance
>
> Earl:
>
> What a concept! Flying within the rules gets the best score.......
>
> If the contestants were watching the distance out flights before
> we started the finals, they could see that we were calibrating the
> group to the distance that the group should start downgrading for
> being too far out... Flying along a line about 160-170 meters
> would seem IDEAL.... Still, as you say, most try to fly about
> 150.... Not sure why...
>
>
> Tony Stillman
> Radio South
> 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> Pensacola, FL 32505
> 1-800-962-7802
> http://www.radiosouthrc.com/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Earl Haury <mailto:ehaury at houston.rr.com>
> To: Discussion List, NSRCA <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:56 AM
> Subject: Proper Distance
>
> Distance in pattern has been (and still is) one of the great
> unknowns. (Spins & snaps are the others.) There are varied
> individual definitions of what is proper, regardless of how
> much clarity or definition is inserted into the rules.
>
> I've been around long enough to see the trend move in and out
> several times, often the out times are well outside of the
> rules. Then there are times when others decide that there are
> more points in really tight! Unfortunately, distance out is
> hard for the both the pilot and the judge to discern with
> accuracy.
>
> A pilot can practice with spotters to establish a good feel
> for distance. That "feel" comes both with visible size
> recognition and time from box line to box line at the
> "comfort" speed. In too close and one is rushed or must slow
> below the "sweet spot" speed, too far out and the opposite
> occurs. So the pilot has the opportunity to tune for his / her
> chosen distance
>
> It seems that, on the judges side, there are distance police.
> Anything that might be approaching the limit is downgraded by
> them. Then there are others that don't downgrade if they can
> see (or hear) something out there! More evidence that distance
> evaluation is difficult, especially when viewing airplanes of
> different size, visibility, and speed. Maybe the only was to
> achieve judging accuracy regarding distance is to use a
> "distance judge" at 175 & 200m and let them assign distance
> downgrades? Seems that the variable application (with good
> intentions) of distance downgrades presently experienced
> dictate consideration of an alternative method.
>
> From the judges chair I find very few close in flights
> accurate or smooth. There are usually inaccuracies brought on
> by lack of time, box violations, and errors forced by wind.
> The good thing about these is that they are over quickly. Out
> flights often have better maneuvers as the pilot has more
> time, box violations are few, and wind effect is better
> handled (and/or less noticeable). But they do take forever and
> the distance downgrades offset the advantages. So what to do?
> Take a clue from the rules "for a large, highly visible model
> aircraft a line of flight approximately 175m in front of the
> competitor may be appropriate". Judges take note of the "in
> front of the competitor" statement, as the judges are 7 to 10m
> behind the competitor. This moves the acceptable flight line 7
> to 10m further away, so 185m (from the judges) is not to be
> downgraded for the large models (anybody seen small models
> lately). Even the rolling circle distance issues can then be
> handled by rolling in then. A 100 to 125m roller in would
> still leave a 50+m buffer between the pilot and airplane.
>
> So - consider that the rules are OK. Big airplanes are best
> flown at the outer range of the rules. Some judges may need
> help in accurately assessing distance. Maybe a distance judge
> would help. There are no benefits and more risks to flying too
> close if to only appease "inaccurate" distance police. Hmmm -
> imagine that, flying within the rules gets the best score..
>
> Earl
>
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