FW: Proper Distance

[Rcmaster199 at aol.com]

I was on site 1 Wednesday evening after the Masters flying was over for the 
day, when the F3A Finalists started their practice sessions on site 3. 
Originally, F3A Finals was to be flown on site 3 and Masters on site 1, as had been 
done in previous years. 

I was surprised to see the far side of the Rolling Circle from site 3, over 
the runway on site 1. Folks that's around 500-600 meters or around 1/4-1/3 mile 
from site 3's pilot station. with a diameter that large, the circle 
circumference is pretty close to 1 mile and at the typical model speed, a 45-50 second 
circle was being done during those practice sessions. 

A clearly unsafe situation could have existed if we allowed the Finals to go 
on as originally planned. I went to site 3 and discussed the observation with 
Don Ramsey and Dave Guerin and we switched sites for the two Finals

The good news is that our TEAM members have a whole year to practice this 
maneuver and get it looking great in the appropriate amount of sky. Consider 
this--At a reduced speed of around 60-70 mph, and a diameter of around 100-120 
meters, the model must fly a circumference of around 400 meters or around 1/4 
mile. The maneuver will still take around 15 seconds to fly

Another observation I had regarding the circle during the F3A Finals, was 
that the roll rate was so slow that the wing tended to rachet (momentarily stop 
rolling) on some models. As though the rudder and elevator inputs were 
counteracting the ailerons since aileron deflection was so slight. I recommend that a 
more defined roll rate (faster) be established up front and the maneuver size 
adjusted to fit the roll rate. Don't give the judges obvious reasons for doubt.

MattK
-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On 
Behalf Of tony at radiosouthrc.com
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:06 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Proper Distance


Earl:

What a concept!  Flying within the rules gets the best score.......

If the contestants were watching the distance out flights before we started 
the finals, they could see that we were calibrating the group to the distance 
that the group should start downgrading for being too far out...  Flying along 
a line about 160-170 meters would seem IDEAL....  Still, as you say, most try 
to fly about 150.... Not sure why...


Tony Stillman
Radio South
3702 N. Pace Blvd.
Pensacola, FL 32505
1-800-962-7802
http://www.radiosouthrc.com/
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Earl Haury 
To: Discussion List, NSRCA 
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:56 AM
Subject: Proper Distance


Distance in pattern has been (and still is) one of the great unknowns. (Spins 
& snaps are the others.) There are varied individual definitions of what is 
proper, regardless of how much clarity or definition is inserted into the 
rules.  

I've been around long enough to see the trend move in and out several times, 
often the out times are well outside of the rules. Then there are times when 
others decide that there are more points in really tight! Unfortunately, 
distance out is hard for the both the pilot and the judge to discern with accuracy. 

A pilot can practice with spotters to establish a good feel for distance. 
That "feel" comes both with visible size recognition and time from box line to 
box line at the "comfort" speed. In too close and one is rushed or must slow 
below the "sweet spot" speed, too far out and the opposite occurs. So the pilot 
has the opportunity to tune for his / her chosen distance

It seems that, on the judges side, there are distance police. Anything that 
might be approaching the limit is downgraded by them. Then there are others 
that don't downgrade if they can see (or hear) something out there! More evidence 
that distance evaluation is difficult, especially when viewing airplanes of 
different size, visibility, and speed. Maybe the only was to achieve judging 
accuracy regarding distance is to use a "distance judge" at 175 & 200m and let 
them assign distance downgrades? Seems that the variable application (with good 
intentions) of distance downgrades presently experienced dictate 
consideration of an alternative method. 

>From the judges chair I find very few close in flights accurate or smooth. 
There are usually inaccuracies brought on by lack of time, box violations, and 
errors forced by wind. The good thing about these is that they are over 
quickly. Out flights often have better maneuvers as the pilot has more time, box 
violations are few, and wind effect is better handled (and/or less noticeable). 
But they do take forever and the distance downgrades offset the advantages. So 
what to do? Take a clue from the rules "for a large, highly visible model 
aircraft a line of flight approximately 175m in front of the competitor may be 
appropriate". Judges take note of the "in front of the competitor" statement, as 
the judges are 7 to 10m behind the competitor. This moves the acceptable flight 
line 7 to 10m further away, so 185m (from the judges) is not to be downgraded 
for the large models (anybody seen small models lately). Even the rolling 
circle distance issues can then be handled by rolling in then. A 100 to 125m 
roller in would still leave a 50+m buffer between the pilot and airplane.

So - consider that the rules are OK. Big airplanes are best flown at the 
outer range of the rules. Some judges may need help in accurately assessing 
distance. Maybe a distance judge would help. There are no benefits and more risks to 
flying too close if to only appease "inaccurate" distance police. Hmmm - 
imagine that, flying within the rules gets the best score..

Earl
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