Some Diagrams & Judging video

[Keith Black]

Bob, your response goes to the heart of the conundrum I was asking about. Do most judges take into account that the angle must appear greater than 45 deg when at the end of the box.

Here are some thoughts/assertions:

1. I would expect it's is common knowledge among judges/pilots that have actively been flying or judging for at least a couple of years that the end-of-box 45 deg line should look steeper, however I doubt even 1% of the participants has scientifically experimented with exactly what the "steeper" line looks like by having an observer at the end of the box verify the angle is indeed 45 degrees (or by moving themselves to the end of the box and watching a correct centered 45 degree line). If my assertion is correct then most of us are just "shooting from the hip" in guessing if the angle at the end of the box is really 45 degrees. My perception was established by another pilot showing me what it should look like, however, after this discussion I'll get my flying partners to do an experiment to view what it should really look like.

2. At any given contest, including NATS, there is probably a mixture judges that take into account the angles at the end of the box should look steeper (regardless of whether they have been told this or not). 

3. The judges "guess" of whether or not the angle at the end of the box is correct may vary depending on the pilot. For example, if I'm up the typical Advanced pilot may judge my end of box turn around as too steep, however if Andre and flies the same angle the same Advanced pilot judging may think Andre knows better than the judge what the correct angle should look like and thus assume it is correct.

Result for me, I'll keep flying what I believe is the "correct" angle which looks steeper and experiment at the field to make sure I know what the correct angle should look like.

This is a very interesting discussion!

Keith Black

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Pastorello 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 12:56 PM
  Subject: Re: Some Diagrams & Judging video


  Andre - agreed - *if* judges are making the appropriate "correction" as they watch.  Of course, since the amount of correction is different depending on depth of manuever in the box, or height, seems that it takes a "known" angle (most everyone can ascertain a very accurate 45 degree line), and turns it into a "I think .... it's a .... corrected ....  --  degree line."
      Which then means we have an additional, and unnecessary subjective decision burden on BOTH pilot and judge (who's a pilot, anyway).
      I think if truth be told - - and NO offense meant to anyone - - most folks are lookin' for the correct angle, and NOT "correcting" for depth/height/distance/perspective.
      But I sure could be wrong about this, too.

  Bob Pastorello
  rcaerobob at cox.net
  www.rcaerobats.net

  Bob Pastorello
  rcaerobob at cox.net
  www.rcaerobats.net


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Andre Bouchard 
    To: discussion at nsrca.org 
    Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 11:49 AM
    Subject: Re: Some Diagrams & Judging video


    Emphasizing what Steve Maxwell has said, true geometry must be flown at all times because....the rules do not say: pull to what will appear to the judge to be a 45 degree line;" they say "pull to a 45 degree line," meaning a real 45 degree line, etc.

    Regards,

    Andre' Bouchard
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