Webra and Judging questions

[Rcmaster199 at aol.com]

Dave, I echo DL's comments. Don't think twice about it.

Basically, in any maneuver requiring a radius to enter it and exit it, 
(pretty much all non-rolling maneuvers), none of the radii within the maneuver are 
"THE Standard One" that the others are compared to for equivalence. They all 
stand alone and are compared to the others within the maneuver. If the judge 
sees the same radii for all looping elements, he assesses no downgrade for the 
looping elements. 

Note that there are other elements in most maneuvers such as lines, rolls and 
multiple point rolls,angles, snap rolls, and superposition within a single 
plane (like two loops) etc., so there are downgrades galore in any maneuver just 
waiting. 

If all four looping elements (4 corners in Dave's example square loop) are 
different, then they are all different compared to each other. Depending on 
severity, I assess 3-4 point downgrade for this infraction alone if that's all I 
saw different. Remember it's the pilot's responsibility to fly with the most 
precision possible because maneuver accuracy is absolute and not relative. He 
must also make the maneuver as easy to judge as to leave no doubt in the judge's 
mind.

HOWEVER, (caps to make the point) If I did not see an error, I award the 
maximum points possible. I know some say that there is no maneuver that can 
possibly be done perfectly. Personally, I don't know how true such a statement is 
but IF I didn't see an error, then it did not happen for me, regardless of how 
much the pilot had to fight the plane in a crosswind to make the maneuver 
perfect. Always remember to judge track and not attitude, since every maneuver must 
be flown in a wind corrected fashion if there's wind present

Judging the present day schedules is not easy or for the faint of heart. 
Please never hesitate to ask for advice on judging of any of us long timers. It is 
the part of our sport that needs the most work still and I ask all who read 
this to become better students of judging. There is a great amount of 
information that must be assimilated to be a fair judge. Please, please, please, ask 
questions. Consider how much time we spend flying and honing our skills. Is it 
fair for an incompetent, uncaring judge to judge someone's superior flying 
skill?

Regards and my apologies for the long note,

Mattk
Dave,

No pardon needed.

Obviously enough, once the 1st radius is completed, it must be duplicated 3 
times or downgrades will occur.  However, the idea is this - 3 of 4 radii (any 
3) on a square loop match - the 4th (any 1) is larger or smaller.  It doesn't 
matter whether the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th radius is the one that does not match 
- the downgrade is for 1 radius being mismatched.

A square loop at center could have 4 radii that are all different and still 
be a square - judge the overall shape of the maneuver - ie -
- up and downline are equally spaced left/right of the center pole and 
maintain vertical track, 
- top and bottom lines maintain track with same entry/exit altitude,
- distance between top/bottom lines is same as up/down lines.

And while I suspect you know, in addition to the entry and exit radii needing 
to be equal on humpties, they are only 2 of the 3 radii in the manuever - the 
entry and exit radii must be equal to the top (or bottom) half loop radius.  
Same goes for things like the goldfish (entry, exit, and 3/4 loop) and 
golfball (entry, exit, and 3/4 loop) in the F3A schedules - and those are probably 2 
of the manuevers where I've seen the greatest variance in radii.

Regards,

Dave Lockhart
DaveL322 at comcast.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: David Wartel 
To: discussion at nsrca.org 
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: Webra and Judging questions


Please pardon my ignorance, but I'm fairly new to pattern and judging. I'm 
having a hard time understanding this. Nothing was said about this at the 
judging seminar I attended in June, (that I remember) except that radii should be 
equal. Also, if maneuvers are judged on symmetry, how can, for instance, a 
square loop or cuban eight be symmetrical if the radii are not all equal?

Matt, I hope you can clarify your answer as it seems contradictory to me. On 
one hand the first radius does not set the standard for the others, but the 
entry and exit radii should be the same for Humpty's and top hats etc??

Dave
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