A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"

Mon Apr 19 14:10:15 AKDT 2004

Jim and all:
The bottom line here is that you have to PRACTICE this as well!  Scoring
(judging) without looking down is something you have to PRACTICE!!!!!  Ron
Van Putte had a good idea for this....  Have someone stand behind the judges
with an airhorn, you know, the ones you can get at a marine supply house
that uses "canned" air...  Have them blow the horn right behind the judge
whenever the judge looks away from the airplane......

It will cure you VERY QUICKLY of looking down!!!

Tony Stillman
Radio South
3702 N. Pace Blvd.
Pensacola, FL 32505
1-800-962-7802
www.radiosouthrc.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Woodward James R Civ 412 TW/DRP" <James.Woodward2 at edwards.af.mil>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"

> I know I'm way-late on this thread however, the use of a scribe does not
in
> itself guarantee better judging.  Just this weekend, we/I witnessed judges
> using scribes for Masters & FAI, looking "down" to tell the scribe what
the
> score is..... it was kind of funny to watch.  In fact, given that they
were
> looking down before the use of a scribe, the addition of a scribe only
> increase the chances of errors, as they (still looking down), had to
> transfer information to another person.
> Jim W.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
On
> Behalf Of Ed Miller
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:43 PM
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"
>
> Well, you are in charge of judging at the BDS contest so go for it.
> Personally, since we have so few spectators at a contest I don't see who
it
> is benefiting. IMHO seems like we've found a lot of answers for an
> unnecessary question. If all this would lead to eliminating the scribe,
> helping judges judge better and helping the CD the day of the event I'd be
> all for it. The hand signals to the scribe and the judge placing the
scores
> on a separate sheet to then be transferred to the official score sheet to
me
> is a classic example of complicating a simple task. The only way to
> eliminate scribes is for every judge to know by heart every sequence of
> every class by heart, not realistic. Short of an electronic scoring
device,
> I don't see anything here that is simple enough to have repeatable, 100%
> correct results. We ought to focus our energy on preparing better judges
and
> simplifying and clarifying maneuver descriptions so there is no room for
> interpretation.
> Ed M.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Anthony Romano" <anthonyr105 at hotmail.com>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 12:57 PM
> Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"
>
>
> >
> > I like the idea. Scribe reads maneuver, judge writes score, scribe flash
> > score to the attendees and reads next maneuver. Could help improve
judging
> > and make contest more interesting. When my parents came to a contest
they
> > were bored silly untill I gave them play by play of a few flights.
> > Anyone willing to try it?
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> > >From: mike mueller <mups1953 at yahoo.com>
> > >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > >Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"
> > >Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:37:36 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >  The way I  propose the hand signals to work  is like this:
> > >  Right hand signifys 6 to 10 the thumb and index finger would be a 7.
> For
> > >half numbers you simply move the fingers to your palm and extend them
> > >several times. A whole number stays put and extended. Numbers under a 5
> are
> > >on the left hand. I really think that the simplier we keep it the
better
> it
> > >could succeed.
> > >  Again I'd like to know if someone would like to trial this system at
a
> > >contest. If only for a couple of rounds with willing participants. I
> think
> > >it's worth a try. I don't think there's anything in the rules that
would
> > >prevent this. Thanks, Mike
> > >
> > >Lance Van Nostrand <patterndude at comcast.net> wrote:
> > >for me, I totally agree with these guys.  RVP was the first to suggest
> this
> > >that I heard at the nats a few years ago and I started doing it this
way
> > >and knew it was the way to go.  I write the scores on the pad in a
column
> > >without taking my eyes off the plane.
> > >   Maybe the easiest, low tech way to announce the scores is to have
the
> > >scribe be the "publisher" for the manuver scores during the flight, and
> > >then copys the scores to the official sheet in between rounds.
> > >    As a technology guy (s/w engineer) I'd love to see electronic
> > >scoreboards and PDA systems, but for over 100 years simple hand signals
> > >have served the arbitragers in the stock market.  A simple adaptation
of
> > >this system would be:
> > >1. Show the main score with your fingers, top of the hand facing the
> > >audience
> > >2. If a hand is turned so that a palm is facing the audience, then add
> 1/2
> > >point
> > >
> > >Even if there are a few mistakes along the way with the palms, the
> audience
> > >will be informed to within a 1/2 point.
> > >
> > >--Lance
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Ron Van Putte
> > >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > >Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 7:57 AM
> > >Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Apr 17, 2004, at 5:47 AM, Del K. Rykert wrote:
> > >
> > >The only other system I have found that works well is using a pad to
> write
> > >down the scores and hopefully the scribe can read my scribble and I
don't
> > >overwrite my scores. It is better but not perfect. At least not perfect
> for
> > >me. When I have a knowledgeable scribe that is used to my system scores
> > >flow. When I have a warm body stuck in scribes chair the system breaks
> down
> > >no matter what the system is in some cases especially while judging
FAI.
> > >     Keep the thoughts flowing and something better might be created.
> > >
> > >I do what Del describes, except that I usually don't use a scribe.
After
> > >the last airborne maneuver, I transcribe from the pad to the
scoresheet.
> I
> > >am usually done before the airplane is on final landing approach.
> > >
> > >Ron Van Putte
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
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> >
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