Control horns, is it just me or... ?

[Michael Ramsey]

http://www.radioactivemfg.com/horns.htm


----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Black" <tkeithb at comcast.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Control horns, is it just me or... ?


> Tom,
>
> You make a good point about the ZNLine horns not being adjustable in
height.
>
> Honestly, if I could just find some longer arms to go on the IM horns that
> would solve the problem. It's surprising to me how many manufactures have
> not considered this, especially since pull-pull has been such a big deal
for
> a while now.
>
> One reason I'm being picky about this is that on this plane I was
> considering using pull-pull on the elevator and rudder. That means three
> different surfaces (two elevator halves and the rudder) need the
connection
> point over the hinge. This also rules out angling the horn arm since the
> opposite side would stick out the wrong direction. Since, I'll be doing
this
> on three surfaces I'd prefer to use a product that's designed to do the
job
> rather than trying to make something work that wasn't designed to solve
the
> problem.
>
> Thanks for you input, you made some good points.
>
> Keith Black
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Koenig, Tom" <Tom.Koenig at actewagl.com.au>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 10:33 PM
> Subject: RE: Control horns, is it just me or... ?
>
>
> >
> > Keith,
> > Try a smaller bevel...but do both sides of the hinge line.
> >
> > I do it much like Gerald. I use 3 mm stainless steel rod however for my
> > horns. I make sure the threads are rolled threads and not cut. I bevel
> both
> > sides of the hinge line, and then I spend a little time on the lathe and
> > make up a little 'cone' style rod supports, much like what you now see
on
> > the IM hardware.
> >
> > I prefer the threaded rod style 'horns'. The fine metric thread can give
> you
> > very precise adjustments when setting up a model. I do it all
mechanically
> > first. I find then that the 'electronic' adjustment is only a few
percent
> > either way. Sometimes I 'turn' my threaded rod by only a 1/4 of a turn
to
> > get the exact throw I'm after, then I'll glue and lock it down.
> > Infact I have found great variations in accuracy in the actual servos
this
> > way.
> >
> > I guess thats one advantage some sponsored flyers have..they can go
> through
> > a pile of servos to "match" them as close as possible to each other.
> >
> > I too have used the ZN, PL horns....but they limit you to the height of
> the
> > horn. There is only one place to mount your clevis. I find I cannot get
> the
> > mechanical adjustment I require from this style of horn...but they sure
> look
> > nice! Impractical in my book however. I just cannot maximise the
> resolution
> > of my radio using this style of horn.
> >
> > There are some plastic arms out there that measure 8mm from centerline
to
> > the pivot hole. I buy them from our local shop...BUT...they only come as
> > part of  an aileron torque rod set up. I believe they are a British
brand.
> > The make is RADIOACTIVE. I really cant help you much more than that. I
am
> > unaware of a website for them ( I have not looked yet!). I just use the
> > arms. The torque rods end up getting twisted into "art" <BG> by my three
> > year old!
> >
> > If you get really stuck, I''ll ask what I can at our local shop. Failing
> > that , I can try and send some to you if  you are desperate. Just
remember
> > I'm down here in the land of Aussies, so it too is a long way!
> >
> > Good luck and zap me offline if you need any further help.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Keith Black[SMTP:tkeithb at comcast.net]
> > > Reply To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 September 2003 13:49
> > > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > Subject: Re: Control horns, is it just me or... ?
> > >
> > > Gerald, thanks for the reply, your description was quite clear.
> > >
> > > How do you deal with the pull-pull horns for the rudder (especially
> > > considering that the rudder has a larger bevel to allow larger
> > > deflection)?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Keith
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: GW
> > > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 9:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Control horns, is it just me or... ?
> > >
> > > What I do on ailerons and elev.
> > >
> > > Install 1/2" dowel in surface. starting roughly 1/8" from LE bevel.
> > > Set up drill press plate for a 10 degree table tilt.
> > > Tape moveable surface into the aileron(elev) cutout shuck (bottom of
> > > surface up) WIth it in its shuck and the 10 degree angle on the Press,
> > > drill 1/8 hole through the Dowel starting at about the top of the
> beveled
> > > surface . This will put the exit near the rear of the dowel on the top
> of
> > > surface, but it does not matter. Shoot a 6/32 hardened bolt though the
> > > dowel, It will be tight, but thats what were looking for, let it tap
its
> > > own threads as your run it in. Go about 3/4 the way into the surface
and
> > > stop. cutoff the excess with the cutoff wheel.
> > > Attach your favorite aileron connector and clevis now, and you will
> > > be very close to the hingeline.
> > >
> > > Or you can do as a majority do, and dont worry about it. Youcan use
> > > your CRC meter to get the deflections the same. Our really neat
computer
> > > radios have taken alot of the need to build perfect out of the
equation.
> > > I like to do it right myself, but thats just me.
> > >
> > > This is just one way to do it with minimal trouble, and less
> > > expense. Im sure others will have a better approach that works for
them.
> > >
> > > I can draw CorelDraw or ACAD file that would illustrate this better
> > > if anyone has an interest.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > GW
> > > Gerald Williams
> > > Email : gw at gwair.com
> > > Webpage: www.gwair.com
> > >
> > > Support Tony Stillman District 5 VP
> > > http://webpages.charter.net/nneville/nneville/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Keith Black
> > > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 8:57 PM
> > > Subject: Control horns, is it just me or... ?
> > >
> > > When it comes to control horns for pattern planes it seems
> > > to me that some of the most commonly used choices have a major flaw.
> > >
> > > On my last plane I used the MK Aluminum Horns on all
> > > surfaces except for the rudder where I used the IM pull-pull horns.
Both
> > > of these are nice horns except they have a major flaw when using a
> > > pull-pull setup. The flaw is that the little black plastic arm that
> screws
> > > onto the horn and connects to the clevis is so short that it doesn't
> > > extend out over the hinge line. I know that with pull-pull systems it
> > > isn't *absolutely* necessary for the connection to be exactly above
the
> > > hinge, but the further back it is the more slack there will be in the
> > > cable that is not pulling.  In my opinion with these horns the
> connection
> > > point is too far away from the hinge unless the horn is virtually
> mounted
> > > on the control surface bevel (especially when it comes to rudder).
This
> > > can easily be seen in these "instructions" for installing the MK horns
> > > http://www.centralhobbies.com/buildingtips/mkhorns/mkhornsinst.html.
> > > Notice that in this picture there surface isn't beveled yet and the
horn
> > > is almost on the edge.
> > >
> > > On my new plane I wanted to avoid this problem so I did some
> > > searching to find a better solution. To begin with I looked for a
longer
> > > arm to connect to the MK horn, one that would extend out to the hinge
> > > line. I found two options from Sullivan but both require too big of a
> horn
> > > thread (6-32 and 8-32). My search then led me to two other choices
that
> > > seem to be good alternatives. The first is the ZNLine aluminum control
> > > horns, but these are apparently only distributed by ZNLine (
> > >
> http://www.znline.com/produits.php?langue=english&cle_menus=1025879382&cle
> > > _data=1025901639) which means an international order. The other
solution
> > > I've found is by RC Model Enterprises (
> > > http://home.att.net/~rc-enterprises/rcme_014.htm) but these control
> horns
> > > seem very pricey!
> > >
> > > If anyone could point me to a longer 3mm connecting arm that
> > > will fit on the MK and IM horns I'd be happy (BTW, I've used the MK BB
> > > connectors on the MK horn and they still aren't really long enough).
> > >
> > > Is it just me, or have others experienced this dilemma as
> > > well?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Keith Black
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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