After run Oil
Jeff Hughes
jhughes at hsonline.net
Wed Nov 19 13:08:21 AKST 2003
We use some silcone rubber seals in the Diesel engines we manufacture
without issue with synthetic vs nonsynthetic oil. In general, the
rubber can't tell the difference between synthetic and natural oil, if
the oils are formulated for the same application. There is a broad
range of silcon rubbers available, and while not as resistant as the
fluorocarbons (Viton), they are certainly used in contact with oil.
But inferior grades of SR's can be attacked (swell) by petroleum
products. All our internal rubber specifications contain compatibility
tests for oil and solvents and so far there is virtually no difference
in degradation noted between synthetic and natural oil products (I'm
talking oils that meet the same specifications). That's why you can
run either in your cars and trucks, ie: no real difference to seals.
Our engines are warranted to 20,000 hours till the first rebuild
(which is about a million miles in car think), so seals are a big deal
to us. Anyway, not to beat this to death, I was just curious to why
people think what they do. Maybe next year when I change the oil in my
vette (Mobile 1, I only do it once a year), I'll run that
compatibility test that troy talks about.
> I can tell you from experience Mobile 1 synthetic does not effect the
> Silicone parts is a YS motor. These are the only parts that have
problems
> with a regular oil...In the Standard Pressure system YS the Plunger
and the
> Diaphragm are silicone. And Petroleum products will attack, deform,
and
> "melt" the Silicone parts to a point where they no longer seal or
function
> as they are not the proper shape. If left the Silicone parts will
totally
> dissolve.
>
> Mobile 1 Synthetic motor oil does not attack the silicone. If you
want proof
> stick some fuel tubing(silicone fuel tubing) in a jar with Havoline
10W-30
> and a piece in Mobile 1 Synthetic....Come back in 2 weeks and
examine the
> two fuel lines. This will tell you the difference in the two
products.
>
> By the way the newer YS motors like the DZ with the direct injection
fuel
> system don't have the silicone parts....I don't know if the pump
Diaphragm
> can be deformed by petroleum products or not but I suspect not.
>
> All other YS's that have the demand Pressure regulator have that
silicone
> Plunger...It is very critical to engine operation...If deformed it
will not
> allow the motor to idle properly and will be the cause in most cases
of the
> drip drip drip out the carb while a motor is idling or when it shuts
off.
>
> TN
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Hughes" <jhughes at hsonline.net>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>; <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 1:58 PM
> Subject: RE: After run Oil
>
>
> > Dean,
> > I guess that is what is confusing me. Mobile 1 is synthetic oil
mfg'd
> > to mimic oils made by distilling. The only difference between them
is
> > the Mobile 1 molecules are all identical, giving better viscosity,
> > temperature range, etc., where natural oils have a range of
lengths.
> > Rubbers that are incompatible in regular motor oil are also
> > incombatible with Mobile 1.
> >
> >
> > > Hi Jeff,
> > > It's a straight synthetic.
> > > Dean P.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jeff Hughes [mailto:jhughes at hsonline.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 7:30 AM
> > > To: discussion at nsrca.org; discussion at nsrca.org
> > > Subject: Re: After run Oil
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you can't use petroleum based lubricants in a YS, why are
people
> > > advocating using Mobile 1? It's synthetic petroleum base.
> > >
> > >
> > > > It is petroleum based.. Not for YS
> > > > John Ferrell
> > > > 6241 Phillippi Rd
> > > > Julian NC 27283
> > > > Phone: (336)685-9606
> > > > johnferrell at earthlink.net
> > > > Dixie Competition Products
> > > > NSRCA 479 AMA 4190 W8CCW
> > > > "My Competition is Not My Enemy"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: mike mueller
> > > > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:43 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: After run Oil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've read that Marvels Mystery Compressor oil is the thing
to
> > > use. Any thoughts? By the way I saw quite a few problems with the
> > > pushrods and the pump cams on the DZ's this last season. The pre
> > lube
> > > thing sounds smart. Mike
> > > >
> > > > Dean Pappas <d.pappas at kodeos.com> wrote:
> > > > I agree with Eric ...
> > > > I have seen more wiped cam followers and abused cams than
you
> > > can shake a stick at, and I believe that most of it happened in
the
> > > first minute of running a new engine. Once the surface galls, it
> > wears
> > > differently for many hours of running. A good pre-lube in a new
> > engine
> > > is an excellent idea, especially with the DZ not having raw fuel
in
> > > the crankcase. The same oil as used in your fuel would also be
good.
> > > Don't try any automotive cam pre-lube: it usually has moly-
disulfide
> > > and will mess up glo-plugs and running until it washes out of the
> > > enginne. Don't ask how I know!
> > > > Regards All,
> > > > Dean
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Henderson,Eric [mailto:Eric.Henderson at gartner.com]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 10:29 AM
> > > > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > > Subject: RE: After run Oil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The interesting thing about using Mobil -1 as an after-
run
> > oil
> > > is that it really behaves like a before-run oil. - more on that
> > later.
> > > >
> > > > One thing that I noticed on YS's is that when we run them
> > dry
> > > of combustible fuel we forget that there is fuel still in the cup
> > > portion of the piston if we are running inverted. It is a good
idea
> > to
> > > run the engine out with the engine upright. If you run it dry
> > > inverted, it will always give you one more pop if you try it
again
> > the
> > > right way up.
> > > >
> > > > The best way to protect a YS is to treat before the first
> > run.
> > > A tear-down looking for ali-crud is always a good idea. Then just
> > > smear everything with Mobil-1 on reassembly.
> > > >
> > > > (As an aside my YS 1.10 spit a prop this weekend without
> > > warning. The culprit was a chard of aluminum stuck in the
silicone
> > > poppet valve in the regulator. This caused fuel to leak to the
carb.
> > > Tightening down the regulator stopped that happening, but when
the
> > > piece fully embedded itself it then had a good seat-seal and
caused
> > a
> > > very lean feed to the carb. - Will check for that next time)
> > > >
> > > > If you use Mobil-1 you will find that it does not mix
with
> > the
> > > fuel. It will cause a good smoke cloud and mess with the initial
run
> > > of the engine.takes about 60 seconds to burn it all out. I
believe
> > > that during this burn-out that is when it does the most good to
the
> > > engine. Mobil-1 appears to get into the "skin" of metal such as
> > > crankshafts and definitely has kept my bearings in good shape.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Eric.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-
> > > request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Bill Thompson
> > > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 7:48 PM
> > > > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > > Subject: Re: After run Oil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Terry
> > > > What you just said is what I have been doing since the
late
> > > 80's. I asked the question because three or four people told me
that
> > I
> > > am killing my engine's. I replaced my bearings after over 200
> > flights
> > > no rust and just like you said it was to make me feel better. I
am
> > > running 25% Cool Power synthetic. Thanks for your help.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Thompson
> > > > AMA 7703
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Terry Brox
> > > > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 6:27 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: After run Oil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Bill,
> > > > You will get a wide range of opinions on this.
The
> > > main difference will be whether or not to use any, and if not,
> > whether
> > > or not to run the engine dry.
> > > > I never use after run, however, performance
> > > specialties sell an after run that will not harm the internals of
> > the
> > > engine. DO NOT USE A PETROLEUM BASED PRODUCT OF ANY KIND.
> > > > I run Cool Power heli fuel and run the engine
dry
> > > after flying. I never have replaced bearings because of need. I
have
> > > replaced the bearings just to "make me feel better" but they
seemed
> > > fine. When I rebuild a YS, the inside is full of oil, even
though I
> > > run it dry after flying. When running it dry, only the part of
the
> > > fuel that burn will run out, leaving a good bit of oil still in
the
> > > engine.
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps get the thread started, good
> > luck,
> > > Terry
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Bill Thompson
> > > > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 4:06 PM
> > > > Subject: After run Oil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What is the best after run oil should I use in my YS
> > > engines ?
> > > >
> > > > Bill Thompson
> > > > AMA 7703
> > > >
> > > >
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