Landing (was Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)

Tue Nov 11 20:34:40 AKST 2003

Can't wait to see the FAI guys this year that are moving back down to
Masters next year get scored for taking off and landing! I judged a lot of
FAI this year, and I saw a few 5s and 6s on takoff and landing. I saw some
9s and 10s too. Most do try to land decently.

I'm a Masters pilot, and I try to make every landing and takeoff as smooth
as possible. I *definitely* do not waste any time getting my plane in the
air after being called to start nor do I make any extended approaches to
get on the ground.  I would not change one thing about the way I takeoff
or land if it wasn't scored.  There are some pilots that take a little too
much time, especially in the lower classes, but the ones that are winning
or placing are practicing both and are efficient.

The only thing I'd like to change is the "Model must be at rest" rule. Get
rid of that. Replace it with something like "Model should be at rest or
rolling slowly". That would save some contest time. The one thing I can't
stand is your caller squating on the runway, making hand signals, waiting
for the pilot to idle down, let go, see the plane crawl forward, and then
have the caller chase down the plane, only to start the whole process
over. That's almost always followed by the engine loading up and dying.

That should be a 5 point downgrade.

-D

> Personally think TO and Landing should remained scored.  This is what
> seperates Pattern Pilots from other disciplines many times.  The ability
> to  control the airplane in the air(especially after rotation and before
>  touchdown) is IMO as important as the ability to stop a spin.
>
> I don't think of straight and level flight as aerobatic but it has been
> judged as such for a number of years.  Still think it is probably the
> hardest "thing" to do though.
>
> The membership, or at least, part of the membership voted.  Leave it as
> is  and continue the education phase of judging correctly.  My vote
> anyway.
>
> ed
>
>
>>From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
>>Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>Subject: RE: Landing (was Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)
>> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:22:36 -0500
>>
>>I have to agree with Dave on this one.  Learning to land at center...in
>> a  variety of wind conditions and at various fields probably taught me
>> more  about flying and how to control the airplane than all the other
>> manuevers  combined.  If anything...we should raise the value.
>>
>>As for the 15 meter box...I would prefer it if the rule DID state that
>> a  perfect score can only be acheived landing at center...with a very
>> minimal  downgrade for anything else within the landing zone.  Center
>> is easy to  judge...and everyone is aiming for center.  So why not
>> reward those that  can hit it.  Some do EVERY time...
>>
>>-M
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:	davel322 at comcast.net [mailto:davel322 at comcast.net]
>>Sent:	Tue 11/11/2003 6:41 PM
>>To:	discussion at nsrca.org
>>Cc:
>>Subject:	Landing (was Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)
>>
>>Respectfully, I must disagree.
>>
>>If the rules aren't being followed, they should not be eliminated.
>>
>>Barrel rolls and "twinkle" rolls pretending to be snap rolls routinely
>> get scored and should be zeroed.  Should we stop judging snaps?
>>
>>Flopped stall turns (more than 150 degrees off in roll axis) routinely
>> are  not
>>zeroed.  Should we stop judging stall turns?
>>
>>Judging is not an easy task, and there will always be room for
>> improvement. Where the rules are gray (no matter how clear they seemed
>> when originally authored) and interpreted in various ways, there is
>> room to clarify the  rules.
>>When the rules are clear and ignored, they need to be politely
>> enforced.
>>
>>So far as landing - we have a system for scoring centering on maneuvers
>> and  I
>>personally don't think we need something different for landing - it is
>> just  an
>>additional rule that adds needless complexity (but I will follow it as
>> long  as
>>it is there).  Besides, at many fields, the landing zone is never
>> marked,  or
>>because of field layout, the landing zone is not used (in which case
>> landing in
>>the zone or centering of the landing would not be part of the judging
>> criteria).
>>
>>Dave Lockhart
>>DaveL322 at comcast.net
>> > Wayne:
>> >
>> > Exactly the point.  If we can't follow the rules to judge it
>> properly,
>>maybe
>> > it's time to quit judging it.  After all, this maneuver has not
>> changed much, even from the early days of pattern  <VBG>  So, if we
>> STILL can't judge it, let's try something else....
>> >
>> > I see this problem at most all of the contests every year, including
>> the NATS.  I judge Masters class, and find that many of the FAI
>> judges
>>sitting
>> > with me don't know the rules to judge it.
>> >
>> >
>> > Tony Stillman
>> > Radio South
>> > 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
>> > Pensacola, FL 32505
>> > 1-800-962-7802
>> > www.radiosouthrc.com
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Wayne Galligan" <wgalligan at goodsonacura.com>
>> > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:40 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>> >
>> >
>> > > But flight is not attainable without take off and landing.  So I
>> say
>>keep
>> > > the scoring.
>> > >
>> > > Take-offs optional.... landings mandatory.    The only thing I saw
>>
>> > > controversial about scoring takeoffs/landings is where the plane
>> lifts
>>off
>> > > and touches down.   Some would score based on how close it is to
>> the
>> > center
>> > > of box line.  It states that scoring is based on touchdown with-in
>> the
>>15
>> > > meters left or right of the box center then deductions for path,
>>attitude
>> > > and centering on the runway.   I know the ONLY way I could get a
>> ten
>>is if
>> > I
>> > > put it right on the center line and center box with a 3 pt
>> touchdown
>>or on
>> > > the takeoff.  This was outlined by the CD at two different
>> contests to
>> > score
>> > > maximum points that touchdown/take off occur between the15 meters
>> both
>> > sides
>> > > of the center of the box and still seemed to be overlooked.
>> > >
>> > > Don Ramsey...help me out here.
>> > >
>> > > Wayne G.
>> > >
>>
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>>
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