Landing (was Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)

[Ed Deaver]

Personally think TO and Landing should remained scored.  This is what 
seperates Pattern Pilots from other disciplines many times.  The ability to 
control the airplane in the air(especially after rotation and before 
touchdown) is IMO as important as the ability to stop a spin.

I don't think of straight and level flight as aerobatic but it has been 
judged as such for a number of years.  Still think it is probably the 
hardest "thing" to do though.

The membership, or at least, part of the membership voted.  Leave it as is 
and continue the education phase of judging correctly.  My vote anyway.

ed


>From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
>Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
>To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>Subject: RE: Landing (was Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)
>Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:22:36 -0500
>
>I have to agree with Dave on this one.  Learning to land at center...in a 
>variety of wind conditions and at various fields probably taught me more 
>about flying and how to control the airplane than all the other manuevers 
>combined.  If anything...we should raise the value.
>
>As for the 15 meter box...I would prefer it if the rule DID state that a 
>perfect score can only be acheived landing at center...with a very minimal 
>downgrade for anything else within the landing zone.  Center is easy to 
>judge...and everyone is aiming for center.  So why not reward those that 
>can hit it.  Some do EVERY time...
>
>-M
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:	davel322 at comcast.net [mailto:davel322 at comcast.net]
>Sent:	Tue 11/11/2003 6:41 PM
>To:	discussion at nsrca.org
>Cc:
>Subject:	Landing (was Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)
>
>Respectfully, I must disagree.
>
>If the rules aren't being followed, they should not be eliminated.
>
>Barrel rolls and "twinkle" rolls pretending to be snap rolls routinely get
>scored and should be zeroed.  Should we stop judging snaps?
>
>Flopped stall turns (more than 150 degrees off in roll axis) routinely are 
>not
>zeroed.  Should we stop judging stall turns?
>
>Judging is not an easy task, and there will always be room for improvement.
>Where the rules are gray (no matter how clear they seemed when originally
>authored) and interpreted in various ways, there is room to clarify the 
>rules.
>When the rules are clear and ignored, they need to be politely enforced.
>
>So far as landing - we have a system for scoring centering on maneuvers and 
>I
>personally don't think we need something different for landing - it is just 
>an
>additional rule that adds needless complexity (but I will follow it as long 
>as
>it is there).  Besides, at many fields, the landing zone is never marked, 
>or
>because of field layout, the landing zone is not used (in which case 
>landing in
>the zone or centering of the landing would not be part of the judging 
>criteria).
>
>Dave Lockhart
>DaveL322 at comcast.net
> > Wayne:
> >
> > Exactly the point.  If we can't follow the rules to judge it properly, 
>maybe
> > it's time to quit judging it.  After all, this maneuver has not changed
> > much, even from the early days of pattern  <VBG>  So, if we STILL can't
> > judge it, let's try something else....
> >
> > I see this problem at most all of the contests every year, including the
> > NATS.  I judge Masters class, and find that many of the FAI judges 
>sitting
> > with me don't know the rules to judge it.
> >
> >
> > Tony Stillman
> > Radio South
> > 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> > Pensacola, FL 32505
> > 1-800-962-7802
> > www.radiosouthrc.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Wayne Galligan" <wgalligan at goodsonacura.com>
> > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
> >
> >
> > > But flight is not attainable without take off and landing.  So I say 
>keep
> > > the scoring.
> > >
> > > Take-offs optional.... landings mandatory.    The only thing I saw
>
> > > controversial about scoring takeoffs/landings is where the plane lifts 
>off
> > > and touches down.   Some would score based on how close it is to the
> > center
> > > of box line.  It states that scoring is based on touchdown with-in the 
>15
> > > meters left or right of the box center then deductions for path, 
>attitude
> > > and centering on the runway.   I know the ONLY way I could get a ten 
>is if
> > I
> > > put it right on the center line and center box with a 3 pt touchdown 
>or on
> > > the takeoff.  This was outlined by the CD at two different contests to
> > score
> > > maximum points that touchdown/take off occur between the15 meters both
> > sides
> > > of the center of the box and still seemed to be overlooked.
> > >
> > > Don Ramsey...help me out here.
> > >
> > > Wayne G.
> > >
>
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