Landing (was Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)

[Atwood, Mark]

Lol...ok..I walked into that one.  Personally, I don't mind the current rule or the way it's inappropriatly judged...I fly FAI :):):)

Just saying that if I had to choose between making the judge fit the current rule...or change the rule to the way it's normally judged...I'd prefer the rule to change.  I wouldn't mind getting judged for take offs and landings either...it's the one set of maneuvers I have some confidence in!


-----Original Message-----
From:	Ron Van Putte [mailto:vanputte at cox.net]
Sent:	Tue 11/11/2003 7:55 PM
To:	discussion at nsrca.org
Cc:	
Subject:	Re: Landing (was Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)


On Nov 11, 2003, at 4:22 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote:

> I have to agree with Dave on this one.  Learning to land at 
> center...in a variety of wind conditions and at various fields 
> probably taught me more about flying and how to control the airplane 
> than all the other manuevers combined.  If anything...we should raise 
> the value.
>
> As for the 15 meter box...I would prefer it if the rule DID state that 
> a perfect score can only be acheived landing at center...with a very 
> minimal downgrade for anything else within the landing zone.  Center 
> is easy to judge...and everyone is aiming for center.  So why not 
> reward those that can hit it.  Some do EVERY time...
>
>

I'm not picking on Mark here (really!), BUT I keep hearing about ideas 
that people have which didn't quite rise to the level of them being 
sufficiently motivated to actually submit a rule change proposal.  
Trust me - If you think a rule change proposal should be made - Do it.  
  Don't expect that someone else will read your mind and submit it for 
you.  There is no such proposal in the correct mix.

Ron Van Putte

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	davel322 at comcast.net [mailto:davel322 at comcast.net]
> Sent:	Tue 11/11/2003 6:41 PM
> To:	discussion at nsrca.org
> Cc:	
> Subject:	Landing (was Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)
>
> Respectfully, I must disagree.
>
> If the rules aren't being followed, they should not be eliminated.
>
> Barrel rolls and "twinkle" rolls pretending to be snap rolls routinely 
> get
> scored and should be zeroed.  Should we stop judging snaps?
>
> Flopped stall turns (more than 150 degrees off in roll axis) routinely 
> are not
> zeroed.  Should we stop judging stall turns?
>
> Judging is not an easy task, and there will always be room for 
> improvement.
> Where the rules are gray (no matter how clear they seemed when 
> originally
> authored) and interpreted in various ways, there is room to clarify 
> the rules.
> When the rules are clear and ignored, they need to be politely 
> enforced.
>
> So far as landing - we have a system for scoring centering on 
> maneuvers and I
> personally don't think we need something different for landing - it is 
> just an
> additional rule that adds needless complexity (but I will follow it as 
> long as
> it is there).  Besides, at many fields, the landing zone is never 
> marked, or
> because of field layout, the landing zone is not used (in which case 
> landing in
> the zone or centering of the landing would not be part of the judging 
> criteria).
>
> Dave Lockhart
> DaveL322 at comcast.net
>> Wayne:
>>
>> Exactly the point.  If we can't follow the rules to judge it 
>> properly, maybe
>> it's time to quit judging it.  After all, this maneuver has not 
>> changed
>> much, even from the early days of pattern  <VBG>  So, if we STILL 
>> can't
>> judge it, let's try something else....
>>
>> I see this problem at most all of the contests every year, including 
>> the
>> NATS.  I judge Masters class, and find that many of the FAI judges 
>> sitting
>> with me don't know the rules to judge it.
>>
>>
>> Tony Stillman
>> Radio South
>> 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
>> Pensacola, FL 32505
>> 1-800-962-7802
>> www.radiosouthrc.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Wayne Galligan" <wgalligan at goodsonacura.com>
>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>
>>
>>> But flight is not attainable without take off and landing.  So I say 
>>> keep
>>> the scoring.
>>>
>>> Take-offs optional.... landings mandatory.    The only thing I saw
>
>>> controversial about scoring takeoffs/landings is where the plane 
>>> lifts off
>>> and touches down.   Some would score based on how close it is to the
>> center
>>> of box line.  It states that scoring is based on touchdown with-in 
>>> the 15
>>> meters left or right of the box center then deductions for path, 
>>> attitude
>>> and centering on the runway.   I know the ONLY way I could get a ten 
>>> is if
>> I
>>> put it right on the center line and center box with a 3 pt touchdown 
>>> or on
>>> the takeoff.  This was outlined by the CD at two different contests 
>>> to
>> score
>>> maximum points that touchdown/take off occur between the15 meters 
>>> both
>> sides
>>> of the center of the box and still seemed to be overlooked.
>>>
>>> Don Ramsey...help me out here.
>>>
>>> Wayne G.
>>>
>
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