intermediate 402 rolling suggestions

[Rodney Tanner]

Doug,
A treat it was!
It was held here in Mexico City, over two days, in
Spanish. 
You are right of course, its a big jump for the
Intermediate level pilot. But that is where we have to
aim for.
Rodney



--- D Suding <junk at velocitus.net> wrote:
> Oh, I would have LOVED to attend a Quiques clinic!
> What a treat that must
> have been. He wrote a "how to" on torque rolls in
> Spanish. I fed it
> through a translator, and it was hysterical. He uses
> very colorful prose.
> Where was it held? TOC?
> 
> I agree that the sweetest looking rolls have rudder
> and elevator smoothly
> applied in just the exact amounts at precisely the
> right moment. But can
> we really expect that from someone that just moved
> up from Sportsman?  If
> you can make your rolls stay on track, and not lose
> or gain altitude,
> you're going to score very well in Intermediate.
> When you have mastered
> the "blip" or "pulse" method, try smoothing it in,
> and adding rudder as
> Rodney says below.
> 
> Did any Intermediate pilot try this last night?
> 
> > The pros would say pulsing elevator as the wing
> comes
> > to the horizontal is just the first step.
> > I attended a Quique Somenzini clinic last November
> and
> > he had us working rudder and elevator stick in a
> > coordinated circular motion, timed with a fairly
> slow
> > roll rate.
> > He did the two reverse rolls on my Viper and boy
> it
> > looked good, very axial, very smooth. He then did
> most
> > of the Intermediate schedule in constant rolls!!
> But,
> > as they say, the Quiques, Chips, Jasons and CPLs
> are a
> > different breed from the rest of us. His serious
> pre
> > contest practice schedule is about 2 gallons a day
> for
> > ten consecutive days!
> > Six months later, here I am still pulsing away on
> the
> > elevator. The 2 or 3 guys that have worked hard to
> > master the more advanced circular method are
> flying
> > better and scoring higher.
> >
> > Rodney
> > NSRCA 2906
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Scott McNaught <scott.mcnaught at sympatico.ca>
> > wrote:
> >> Hello Jim,
> >>
> >> I am currently practicing the two rolls in the
> >> intermidiate pattern. I am
> >> using elevator through my rolls, my problem is
> the
> >> timming of the elevator
> >> and the amount which increases on the second roll
> as
> >> your speed decreases.
> >>
> >> Scott McNaught
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "D Suding" <junk at velocitus.net>
> >> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> >> Cc: <jivey61 at msn.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:12 PM
> >> Subject: Re: intermediate 402 rolling suggestions
> >>
> >>
> >> > Jim-
> >> >
> >> > You are correct.  But even the guys with
> balanced
> >> planes were ALL OVER the
> >> > sky on those rolls. I was watching their
> elevator
> >> input, and I thought
> >> > that this was a universal problem with the
> >> Intermediate guys.
> >> >
> >> > Even with a perfectly balanced plane, you're
> going
> >> to have to add
> >> > elevator, down-up-down-up.  But my point is to
> not
> >> let that elevator input
> >> > throw you off course. I like to call it a
> "blip"
> >> of elevator.
> >> >
> >> > I would love to hear from an Intermediate pilot
> >> that goes out to the field
> >> > tonight and tries it. Make sure you are flying
> >> high enough that a mistake
> >> > isn't going to crash you.
> >> >
> >> > -Dennis
> >> >
> >> > > Dennis
> >> > >  These guys are flying nose heavy airplanes.
> If
> >> they would balance the
> >> > > planes so that they are as neutral upright as
> >> inverted, or very near
> >> > > as. The majority of the would go away.
> >> > >
> >> > > Jim Ivey
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: D Suding
> >> > > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 1:54 PM
> >> > > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> >> > > Cc: randy10926 at comcast.net
> >> > > Subject: Re: intermediate 402 rolling
> >> suggestions
> >> > >
> >> > > I noticed something in the Intermediate class
> >> while I was judging in
> >> > > Albuquerque. The two horizontal rolls looked
> bad
> >> even when performed by
> >> > > the best pilots. I think I know why.
> >> > >
> >> > > First, you can't just throw the stick to the
> >> right or left and wait for
> >> > > plane to roll 720 degrees. It will lose too
> much
> >> altitude.  You need
> >> > > elevator.
> >> > >
> >> > > Second, you don't start feeding the elevator
> >> when the plane gets past 90
> >> > > degrees. This will make the plane cork-screw.
>  I
> >> kept seeing this.  The
> >> > > plane would roll 90 degrees, and the pilot
> would
> >> feed some elevator,
> >> > > increasing as it went to 180, then decreasing
> as
> >> it followed through to
> >> > > 270 and so on.
> >> > >
> >> > > Here's what you do:
> >> > >
> >> > > 1) Find a roll rate that takes about 1.5
> seconds
> >> to roll 360 degrees.
> >> > >
> >> > > 2) Here's the trick: DON'T ADD ANY ELEVATOR
> >> EXCEPT AT 180 and 360
> >> > > DEGREES!!!!! When the plane gets to 180, give
> it
> >> a SHORT, SHARP down
> >> > > elevator to pitch the nose up to level. Then
> at
> >> 360 degrees, give it a
> >> > > SHORT, SHARP up elevator to pitch the nose up
> >> again.
> >> > >
> >> > > Of course, to get picky, you actually start
> >> feeding elevator at ~175
> >> > > degrees, but the key is to really limit the
> >> duration of the elevator
> >> > > input so that your purpose is to correct for
> the
> >> effects of gravity
> >> > > only.
> >> > >
> >> > > 3) Practice one thousand times.
> >> > >
> >> > > Hope this helps.
> >> > >
> >> > > -Dennis
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >> Yes you start with a half roll and end with
> a
> >> half roll.  The inverted
> >> > >> flight should be centered in the box and
> last
> >> at least 4 seconds.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Randy
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> 
=== message truncated ===


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