Calling Maneuvers for Judges

[Dean Pappas]

John,
Don't sweat it!
Dean

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Uhler [mailto:juhler at bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 12:51 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges


Guys,

As a newbie this type of discussion is very discouraging.  I've been flying since 1978, sport type flying with no real direction.  I got into pattern so I can add purpose to my flying, and so I can learn.  I thought the whole reason for flying pattern was to compete against pilots.  I also thought the AMA made rules so people would know what they are getting into when they go to a contest.  Now I understand that certain fields/hosting clubs may have rules that a person would need to adhere to while flying in a contest at that location.  However, the basic contest rules should be the same from event to event.  As a rookie pattern pilot I have enough to worry about with the schedules and learning to compete in front of people.  I'd hate to think I need to lump in different rules for different contests.  I'd also hate to think that I could get downgraded cause of a caller error.  In these times of low pattern attendance I would think we would want to make things more uniform and easier on the pilots, not more difficult and random.

Just the thoughts of a newbie pattern pilot with one contest under his belt.

Jon Uhler
> 
> From: "Gray E Fowler" <gfowler at raytheon.com>
> Date: 2003/06/12 Thu PM 12:27:13 EDT
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> 
> Tony
> 
> I was the one flying when this happened. When I heard the judge say " 
> isn't he supposed to be inverted" both myself and my caller Lance said 
> "no" in unison. During the flight I think two more judge "questions" arose 
> where upon I almost missed a downwind centered maneuver because my caller 
> was again straightening out judge confusion. Frankly I felt like landing. 
> I really do not know how this could have been fixed after the fact unless 
> I re-flew the entire pattern.  Considering that I am a very bad Advanced 
> guy I am no where near winning anything  so it did not matter. To 
> alleviate this problem on the next rounds both myself and Lance started 
> calling out the entire  maneuver loud enough for the judges to know that 
> there is both a stall turn with and without half rolls and when I was 
> supposed to be inverted. 
> These judges were club guys who got the intense training session prior to 
> the contest. They were trying their best to do it right, and were just 
> confused-no reason to get mad. What I think this underscores the most is 
> that we as Pattern dudes are by far the most qualified to judge ourselves, 
> yet no one wants to judge- or it appears no one wants to judge at the 
> contests, yet we are willing to let the local sport flyers give us all 8 
> ,9 and 10's no matter how bad it is, not know when to zero, look down 
> during the maneuver, etc. 
> Here's a vote for contestant judging!
> 
> By the way on that same flight.....When Lance was dealing with the judges 
> I "thought" the next maneuver was the triangle so I pulled up at center to 
> 45 degrees, the got the proper maneuver, leveled out and proceeded with a 
> quick slow roll that missed center by 2.2 counties, one judge gave me a 6 
> the other an 8, which should have been a 0. Now there is an argument that 
> I should have this stupid pattern memorized for my own benefit.
> 
> 
> 
> Gray Fowler
> Principal Chemical Engineer
> Composites Engineering
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Tony Stillman" <tony at radiosouthrc.com>
> Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> 06/12/2003 09:18 AM
> Please respond to discussion
> 
>  
>         To:     <discussion at nsrca.org>
>         cc: 
>         Subject:        Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> 
> 
> Keith:
> 
> I wouldn't say anything during the flight.  Take it to the cheif judge or 
> CD
> after the flight and let  them get it straightened out.
> 
> Tony Stillman
> Radio South
> 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> Pensacola, FL 32505
> 1-800-962-7802
> www.radiosouthrc.com
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Keith Black" <tkeithb at attbi.com>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> 
> 
> > How about when you hear the judge say something like "isn't he supposed 
> to
> > be inverted", and you're not. This happen to one of the pilots two or
> three
> > times in the *same* flight at one contest I attended. Obviously that's
> very
> > distracting to the pilot and caller.
> >
> > Question, if you hear this from the judges should you respond verbally?
> > Seems like this level of confusion would totally blow the whole flight.
> What
> > would be the proper protocol for the pilot during and after the flight 
> if
> > something like this occurs?
> >
> > Keith Black
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ron Lockhart" <ronlock at comcast.net>
> > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> >
> >
> > > Adding the function of calling in a manner suitable
> > > for judging can be a distraction from 'Caller for Pilot'
> > > duties.  It's not desirable, but the realities of
> > > contest manpower sometimes require it.
> > >
> > > Even more distracting is (have you been there as a
> > > pilot or caller?) hearing a scribe call maneuvers
> > > late or early...and ya hope the judge isn't
> > > listening. <VBG>
> > >
> > > Ron Lockhart
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: WHIP23 at aol.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:29 am
> > > Subject: Re: Wrong Maneuver issues
> > >
> > > > In a message dated 6/11/03 8:12:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > > > Patternrules at aol.com writes:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally I like it when the caller calls the maneuvers loud
> > > > enough for the
> > > > > judges to hear, then I don't need a scribe just a blank paper,
> > > > then
> > > > > transcribe the # after the flight.
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve Maxwell
> > > >
> > > > I agree, with the caller calling the maneuvers loud enough for the
> > > > judges to
> > > > hear, but I have found that there is a lot of resistance to this
> > > > proceedure.
> > > > I've always viewed presenting the sequence such that the judges
> > > > could judge
> > > > it, easily and correctly as part of the "job" and the caller can
> > > > contribute to
> > > > that to a large degree, by calling the maneuvers such that there
> > > > is no
> > > > confusion.  I will also point out that I have nearly been lynched
> > > > for this position,
> > > > on occasion :-)
> > > >
> > > > This otta' get some action going on the list (flame suit on, bring 
> it)
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > >
> > > =====================================
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> > >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 

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