Calling Maneuvers for Judges

Thu Jun 12 10:23:04 AKDT 2003

Think of this forum as the same as sausage making. We are debating, thinking out loud, and when there is no clear rule, expressing opinions. Sometimes the process is not pretty, but the results are good.  There is no question we all want accurate and fair judging. Much work has been done to get us where we are now, and judging on the whole is probably as good as it has ever been. But there is still room for improvement, hence these discussions. 

Jon Uhler <juhler at bellsouth.net> wrote:
Guys,

As a newbie this type of discussion is very discouraging. I've been flying since 1978, sport type flying with no real direction. I got into pattern so I can add purpose to my flying, and so I can learn. I thought the whole reason for flying pattern was to compete against pilots. I also thought the AMA made rules so people would know what they are getting into when they go to a contest. Now I understand that certain fields/hosting clubs may have rules that a person would need to adhere to while flying in a contest at that location. However, the basic contest rules should be the same from event to event. As a rookie pattern pilot I have enough to worry about with the schedules and learning to compete in front of people. I'd hate to think I need to lump in different rules for different contests. I'd also hate to think that I could get downgraded cause of a caller error. In these times of low pattern attendance I would think we would want to make things more uniform and easier on the
 pilots, not more difficult and random.

Just the thoughts of a newbie pattern pilot with one contest under his belt.

Jon Uhler
> 
> From: "Gray E Fowler" 
> Date: 2003/06/12 Thu PM 12:27:13 EDT
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> 
> Tony
> 
> I was the one flying when this happened. When I heard the judge say " 
> isn't he supposed to be inverted" both myself and my caller Lance said 
> "no" in unison. During the flight I think two more judge "questions" arose 
> where upon I almost missed a downwind centered maneuver because my caller 
> was again straightening out judge confusion. Frankly I felt like landing. 
> I really do not know how this could have been fixed after the fact unless 
> I re-flew the entire pattern. Considering that I am a very bad Advanced 
> guy I am no where near winning anything so it did not matter. To 
> alleviate this problem on the next rounds both myself and Lance started 
> calling out the entire maneuver loud enough for the judges to know that 
> there is both a stall turn with and without half rolls and when I was 
> supposed to be inverted. 
> These judges were club guys who got the intense training session prior to 
> the contest. They were trying their best to do it right, and were just 
> confused-no reason to get mad. What I think this underscores the most is 
> that we as Pattern dudes are by far the most qualified to judge ourselves, 
> yet no one wants to judge- or it appears no one wants to judge at the 
> contests, yet we are willing to let the local sport flyers give us all 8 
> ,9 and 10's no matter how bad it is, not know when to zero, look down 
> during the maneuver, etc. 
> Here's a vote for contestant judging!
> 
> By the way on that same flight.....When Lance was dealing with the judges 
> I "thought" the next maneuver was the triangle so I pulled up at center to 
> 45 degrees, the got the proper maneuver, leveled out and proceeded with a 
> quick slow roll that missed center by 2.2 counties, one judge gave me a 6 
> the other an 8, which should have been a 0. Now there is an argument that 
> I should have this stupid pattern memorized for my own benefit.
> 
> 
> 
> Gray Fowler
> Principal Chemical Engineer
> Composites Engineering
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Tony Stillman" 
> Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> 06/12/2003 09:18 AM
> Please respond to discussion
> 
> 
> To: 
> cc: 
> Subject: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> 
> 
> Keith:
> 
> I wouldn't say anything during the flight. Take it to the cheif judge or 
> CD
> after the flight and let them get it straightened out.
> 
> Tony Stillman
> Radio South
> 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> Pensacola, FL 32505
> 1-800-962-7802
> www.radiosouthrc.com
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Keith Black" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> 
> 
> > How about when you hear the judge say something like "isn't he supposed 
> to
> > be inverted", and you're not. This happen to one of the pilots two or
> three
> > times in the *same* flight at one contest I attended. Obviously that's
> very
> > distracting to the pilot and caller.
> >
> > Question, if you hear this from the judges should you respond verbally?
> > Seems like this level of confusion would totally blow the whole flight.
> What
> > would be the proper protocol for the pilot during and after the flight 
> if
> > something like this occurs?
> >
> > Keith Black
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ron Lockhart" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: Calling Maneuvers for Judges
> >
> >
> > > Adding the function of calling in a manner suitable
> > > for judging can be a distraction from 'Caller for Pilot'
> > > duties. It's not desirable, but the realities of
> > > contest manpower sometimes require it.
> > >
> > > Even more distracting is (have you been there as a
> > > pilot or caller?) hearing a scribe call maneuvers
> > > late or early...and ya hope the judge isn't
> > > listening. 
> > >
> > > Ron Lockhart
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: WHIP23 at aol.com
> > > Date: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 11:29 am
> > > Subject: Re: Wrong Maneuver issues
> > >
> > > > In a message dated 6/11/03 8:12:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > > > Patternrules at aol.com writes:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally I like it when the caller calls the maneuvers loud
> > > > enough for the
> > > > > judges to hear, then I don't need a scribe just a blank paper,
> > > > then
> > > > > transcribe the # after the flight.
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve Maxwell
> > > >
> > > > I agree, with the caller calling the maneuvers loud enough for the
> > > > judges to
> > > > hear, but I have found that there is a lot of resistance to this
> > > > proceedure.
> > > > I've always viewed presenting the sequence such that the judges
> > > > could judge
> > > > it, easily and correctly as part of the "job" and the caller can
> > > > contribute to
> > > > that to a large degree, by calling the maneuvers such that there
> > > > is no
> > > > confusion. I will also point out that I have nearly been lynched
> > > > for this position,
> > > > on occasion :-)
> > > >
> > > > This otta' get some action going on the list (flame suit on, bring 
> it)
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > >
> > > =====================================
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> > > # discussion-request at nsrca.org
> > > # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
> > > #
> > >
> >
> > =====================================
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> > # discussion-request at nsrca.org
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> > #
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> =====================================
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> # discussion-request at nsrca.org
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

=====================================
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Bob Kane
getterflash at yahoo.com

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