Pattern Fun / scribe / Judging

[Larry Diamond]

Mark,

I agree with you that it's was unprofessional for the judge to act in the
manner described. However, two wrongs don't make it right. More often than
not, the second foul draws the flag or penalty.

There are probably a number of different ways for the CD to handle this and
perhaps the CD did handle it well. None the less, a yelling match should
never happen during a contest. The pilot should not have engaged the judge
even if the judge was unfair. The pilot should have plead the case to the CD
after the flight. A number of possible remedies could have been made by the
CD which could have been  to allow the pilot to scrub that flight and make
it up at the end of the round; or, scrub the round, replace the judge and
redo the round.

I would hope, and state during a pilot meeting if I was a CD, that a judge
and/or pilot give me the opportunity to resolve a problem instead of taking
it into there own hands. In the situation described I'm certain that it
removed an element of fun and camaraderie for a period of time or for the
whole event for that matter. The situation wasn't fair to the majority of
participants and the CD, setting aside the judge and the pilot involved.

I wasn't there and I'm sure there are two sides to the story, so I can't say
how I would have handled it. However, based on what I understand for the big
picture the pilot should have been held accountable to the rule book. The
level of accountability is very subjective and depends on the severity of
the conflict. To your point, perhaps the judge should have been held
accountable as well. Perhaps they both were...

Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Wendt" <wendt at kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe / Judging


On the other hand, the pilot is the one with the aircraft in the air. Kinda
hard for him/her to stop in mid-flight walk over to the CD and lodge a
protest.  IMHO, it was very unprofessional of the judge not to know the
rule book, then ignore what the pilot was saying, then "whisper" the
scores.  If I was the CD, at that point it wouldn't be the pilot I would
remove, it would be the judge.  The pilot has enough on his palate with the
flight sequence and being airborne, than to get into a p*ssing contest with
the judge.  It's not up to the pilot to ensure that they have good judging,
it's up to the CD.  It's also up to the CD to protect the pilots from
irrational judging, or he may not have a "Contest" again, because the
pilots won't come back.

Mark


At 10:51 PM 9/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>My opinion on the pilot or caller calling the maneuvers is pretty
strong....
>
>The pilot is the one being judged, not the judge. I have seen pilots cover
>errors with precision and sometime a judge doesn't see it. When this
happens
>even a well seasoned judge may loose track of the next maneuver because an
>exit was upright and should have been inverted and get confused. This
throws
>off the flow of the person judging and allows the pilot an opportunity to
>score better than deserved. This isn't fair to the other pilots.
>
>If the maneuvers are called loud enough for the judges to hear, the scribe
>don't need to call the maneuvers and the judge is mentally prepared to
judge
>it. This will assist not only the judges with less experience to get it
>right, but also prevent a seasoned judge from missing and scoring better
>than deserved.
>
>For the issue stated below...Although my comments suggest a vary harsh
>action by the CD, it is with in their authority...The rule book states
that,
>"A contestant or someone representing a contestant can't talk to an event
>judge unless it is the CD". This would be understood that even if the CD
was
>a judge that the contestant can't talk to him/her about judging. The harsh
>reality in my opinion is that the CD has the authority to disqualify the
>contestant for willful misconduct if they get into a yelling match with a
>judge, or the CD could be called under protest by another contestant if
that
>person wins and wasn't disqualified (or penalized such a zero for the whole
>flight). Harsh, but that's how I see it...
>
>The action the pilot should have taken was to protest to the CD and keep
>cool. This is a "right" for the contestant. A CD must protect the judges or
>the judges may be reluctant to judge again.
>
>.02 worth
>
>Larry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Adam Glatt" <adam.g at sasktel.net>
>To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:25 PM
>Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
>
>
>Hmmm... or even worse, as I witnessed this season at one contest, the judge
>is ignored in his request, and part ways through the flight the judge
>requests the manuevers be called louder again.  Ignored agian.  Asks again,
>louder.  Pilot gives message to caller, caller tells judge that the caller
>doesn't have to call out the manuevers at all if the pilot doesn't want
them
>(correct).  Judge asks again. Pilot tells judge same thing, only by this
>time is pissed off, along with the caller and judge.  For rest of flight
>judge whispers scores to scribe loud enough for everyone at that line
(other
>judge, pilot, caller), and I (sitting back 30 feet) to hear.  Ugly, ugly
>situation to watch, pilot and judge got into yelling match after flight.
>
>The entire flight is worthless, and we have two people very angry at each
>other, and a CD who has to hear the entire story from different points of
>view.
>
>I think the lesson is, don't refuse a judge.  If judges are requesting loud
>calling and a pilot doesn't want the loud calling, the CD needs to step in
>BEFORE the flight and assign a caller for the judge.  The rule on what has
>to be called, and how loud, should also be explained by the CD at the
pilots
>meeting before the contest begins if there is any disagreement.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill Glaze" <billglaze at triad.rr.com>
>To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>Sent: September 21, 2002 1:56 PM
>Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
> > Still, having said that, it is still preferable to call the maneuvers
> > for the judge, rather than have him/her get "lost" in the sequence.
> > And, for most of us, a refusal is unthinkable.  Do you want to get the
> > judge mad at you before the takeoff?<G>
> >
>
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