[NSRCA-dist8] [External] Re: Batteries

Thu Jan 27 09:10:01 AKST 2022

I’m thing someone will design a motor and prop so the contra only works on
down lines ,then kicks out on horizontal and 45’s .Like changing gears from
first to third on a car trans.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 10:04 AM Patrick Harris via NSRCA-dist8 <
nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> Igor,
>
> Interesting that you bring up flying slower. There has been a major shift
> in flying styles of the top guys over the last few years and it all
> revolves around speed.
>
> It wasn't that long ago, everyone wanted to fly slow and close in. John
> Bentley has been to several Worlds and can attest that the top 20 or so
> percent of the field all fly at a top level and it has become very
> difficult to judge. The big thing now is ultra consistent speed. In fact
> consistent speed has now become a major judging criteria to help
> distinguish the very top pilots.
>
> The problem is, it is very difficult to fly slow and have consistent
> speed. The limiting factor is "downlines''. You can only control downline
> speed so much. So what the big boys are now doing is watching their
> downline speed and matching that to their horizontal and 45 speed. The
> outcome has become "faster" and a bit further out flying styles.
>
> One other issue is contras. Andrew was flying contras maybe three or four
> years ago. He told me he stopped flying them because he couldn't get
> consistent speed. I was flying a contra at the time and didn't really pick
> up on what he was talking about for several months. I started to really
> concentrate on speed and realized I couldn't fly uplines at the same speed
> as 45's and horizontals. Flying a contra is kind of like driving a tractor.
> A tractor might go 3 miles per hour at 1/3 throttle but only 5 miles per
> hour at full throttle. You can go upline with a contra with just a couple
> of clicks of power, but if you go full throttle it wont go much
> faster....it just burns up batteries.
>
> The bottom line is we are going to burn more juice to get consistent
> flying speed, but that's the price we have to pay.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 10:26 AM Karl Watts <Karl.Watts at saintalphonsus.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone want some never used Roaring Top, 5C, 5800 mAh, 35C lipo batteries
>> with EC5 connectors?  Purchased the 5800 by mistake, wanted the 5000.  I
>> have 6 of them.  Retail right now for $72 each.  I do not remember how much
>> I paid for them, not that much, they were on sale.  Will give you a really
>> good deal - $45/each.
>>
>>
>>
>> Karl
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sean Mersh <mershs at hotmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 8:42 PM
>> *To:* Patrick Harris <harris7148 at gmail.com>; AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY <
>> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>; Jim Hiller <jnhiller at comcast.net>; Karl
>> Watts <Karl.Watts at saintalphonsus.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-dist8] [External] Re: Batteries
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, there is a difference:
>>
>> 35C's are heavier than 25C's, because the only way (at present) to
>> increase C rating is to add more metal to the packs, increasing weight.
>>
>> BUT: in pattern, unlike in 3D or helicopter flying, we don't need more
>> than 25C because we don't pull short bursts of high power, as long as we
>> use good throttle management with SLOW throttle stick movements.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Outlook
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fweboutlook&data=04%7C01%7CKarl.Watts%40saintalphonsus.org%7C84b4707ce20b46cd42bd08d9e146feb0%7C0d91e6194a2c4c80b9598fdf518e52e8%7C0%7C0%7C637788517330336456%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=TCf6Evm%2B7ggiWTbInv%2F5eOH64gt6gOCpaXFUetI2pg4%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of
>> Karl Watts via NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 11:00 AM
>> *To:* Patrick Harris <harris7148 at gmail.com>; AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY <
>> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>; Jim Hiller <jnhiller at comcast.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-dist8] [External] Re: Batteries
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, so, does it make a difference if I get the 35 C 10s 5000s versus the
>> 25 C 10s 5000s?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> *On Behalf Of *Patrick
>> Harris via NSRCA-dist8
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 11:18 AM
>> *To:* Jim Hiller <jnhiller at comcast.net>; AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY <
>> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Subject:* [External] Re: [NSRCA-dist8] Batteries
>>
>>
>>
>> *CYBERSECURITY WARNING**:* This email is sent from outside of Trinity
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>>
>>
>> Jim, Art,
>>
>>
>>
>> My pleasure. It's interesting to note that Andrew and AC will not be able
>> to utilize the longer flight times of 12's at the NATS and the Worlds.
>>
>>
>>
>> As an aside, there was an interesting (or contentious) thread on RC
>> Universe a while back. The guy wanted to get in a fight with me, but I
>> wanted nothing to do with it. He was off on some tangent that a 12's system
>> will not result in lower heat in the batteries. The long and short of it
>> is, a 12's system is a higher voltage system than 10's, which results in it
>> (12's) being a "more efficient" system. I am no electronic genius by any
>> means, but I do know that higher voltage systems are noted as being more
>> efficient. For our purposes, an efficient system simply has a lower current
>> draw, which results in lower heat being generated within the system.
>>
>>
>>
>> John can correct me if I am wrong, but it's pretty much a question of how
>> we generate the "Watts" in our system. In a 10's system, to generate X
>> amount of watts of power, we need to pull X amount of Amps from the
>> batteries. In a 12's system we now trade volts for amps. Simply said, to
>> now generate the same amount of watts as our 10's system, we now are able
>> to pull less amps from the batteries. (40 volts times 70 amp draw equals
>> 2,800 watts) Conversely in a 12's system, (2,800 watts divided by 48 volts
>> equals a 58 amp draw). Amps times Volts = Watts
>>
>>
>>
>> The bottom line is the roughly 12 amp less draw is really pretty
>> irrelevant for our motor and ESC. Yes they might run a bit cooler, but they
>> are built to take it. The real bonus is with less amp draw from our
>> batteries they are simply going to run cooler. As we all know, heat is the
>> death knell to our batteries. Less current draw equates to less heat, which
>> equates to longer battery life. A high current draw from our batteries
>> raises the internal resistance. The next time we fly, our batteries heat
>> goes up due to the higher internal resistance, which now raises the
>> internal resistance even further, which results in more heat being
>> generated....the result a big puffy, shot battery.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is also a side note that I am not versed enough to discuss. It's my
>> understanding that a higher voltage system may have less internal
>> resistance of its components due to the lower current (amp) draw. Lower
>> internal resistance equates to lower heat generation.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's all about the heat baby! Keep in mind, your mileage may vary.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 10:31 AM Jim Hiller via NSRCA-dist8 <
>> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Scott, I’m no expert but I don’t think I’d do that, epically if batteries
>> are not purchased together and USED together. If one of the four gets week
>> it will drop voltage faster then the other three and increase amp draw. If
>> one is not paying close attention to the battery condition excessive amp
>> draw will detiourate the other three, requiring replacement of all four.
>> I’ve had this happen with a low voltage shutdown to two 5-S batteries,
>> running the good one as well. To prevent this the ESC low V cut off would
>> need to be set too high.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is just my opinion.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail
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>> for Windows
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Shawn Bekheimer via NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, January 26, 2022 6:06 AM
>> *To: *stnagler at gmail.com; AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY
>> <nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [NSRCA-dist8] Batteries
>>
>>
>>
>> I can’t see why not. There will be minimal loss due to connector count
>> but most likely not noticeable.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:14 PM, stnagler--- via NSRCA-dist8 <
>> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Maybe a newb question, but could 4-3s batteries work as well to get to
>> 12s?
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 20:57 Patrick Harris via NSRCA-dist8 <
>> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> If you haven’t seen it’s, here is the video Andrew did recently comparing
>> 10’s and 12’s
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR1ylyggiK9aZWt0I2eG19TTULyKflWRfKcCg2P510HLmvHZw8bVTwSq6t0&v=0Rz5WdhEJwA&feature=youtu.be
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR1ylyggiK9aZWt0I2eG19TTULyKflWRfKcCg2P510HLmvHZw8bVTwSq6t0%26v%3D0Rz5WdhEJwA%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&data=04%7C01%7CKarl.Watts%40saintalphonsus.org%7C84b4707ce20b46cd42bd08d9e146feb0%7C0d91e6194a2c4c80b9598fdf518e52e8%7C0%7C0%7C637788517330492662%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=RxxcJJRvlsZXBl9uC1B9XHvcastLee7umfmM674BkKU%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2022, at 7:32 PM, Sean Mersh via NSRCA-dist8 <
>> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I have experimented with 12S batteries; I used the TP 4000mAh batteries.
>> Average remaining capacity after one P-23 flight: 38%.
>>
>> With 10S TP 4400 mAh batteries: Average remaining capacity after one
>> P-23 flight: 32%. It is the same for the newer version that is 48 g
>> lighter, almost 2 ounces 🙂!
>>
>> Weight:
>>
>> TP 12S 4000 mAh, 25C ProLiteX: 1062 g
>>
>> TP 10S 4400 mAh, 25C ProLiteX: 1025 g
>>
>> New TP 10S 4400 mAh, 25C ProLiteX: 977 g
>>
>> My conclusion: unless you're flying F-23 and Unknowns, 10S 4400 mAh
>> batteries are more than adequate and save you almost 3 ounces, compared to
>> the 12S 4000 mAh packs. I agree that the 12S batteries will probably last
>> longer, since they are not worked as hard as 10S packs. I could not feel
>> any performance improvement with 12S packs.
>>
>> As stated by other members: 12S packs are legal now in AMA classes, but
>> not yet in FAI.
>>
>> Another consideration: My Mezon ESC does not automatically recognize the
>> pack cell count. So, if I switch from 10S to 12S, I need to reprogram the
>> ESC 😟.
>>
>> But, 6S (2x) cells are much more readily available than 5S or 10S packs.
>>
>> Lots of variables!
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Outlook
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>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of
>> Karl Watts via NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 7:25 PM
>> *To:* AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY <nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-dist8] Batteries
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone switching to 12s packs?
>>
>>
>>
>> Karl
>>
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice:
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