[NSRCA-dist7] Clarification on FAI maneuver 1

[James Oddino]

On May 2, 2008, at 3:52 PM, Scott C wrote:

> I'll take a stab at answering all your questions..
>
> Questions:
> Where does the maneuver start?
> *** As far as I am concerned, it better start when you call  
> 'entering the box'. This, of course is not 'official', but if your  
> wings are still finding level, and you are climbing and decending,  
> it's not very good presentation for the judges, and I would take off  
> something for this. I think officially it's something like 100'  
> before you start to roll to KE... but one never knows when the roll  
> will start, so level flight all the way from box entry is a good idea.
>
>  At a point in the upright level flight before the knife edge that  
> is equal to the length of the knife edge?
> *** Upright level flight  is WAY MORE than the KE segment - not sure  
> what you are asking here.

I'm saying that by definition the maneuver starts at some point that  
is not determined until you do the knife edge and it is exactly the  
same length so we don't need to worry about it, I guess.   It should  
probably be at a point below the center of the second half outside.  
But it is indistinguishable from the long line preceding it.
>
> Is that part of the level flight considered point 1? (NO)  - but  
> this is an interesting point. If you actually plot out a 4-point  
> roll, the last 'point' is level flight and it's equal to the length  
> of the KE and inverted segements. However, this is not counted as a  
> point because the CENTER of the 4-point is the center of inverted  
> flight - this is where the Center defination comes in of N-1 where N  
> is the number of points in a roll. So in a 4 point, the center is  
> 4-1 = 3 segments, and at 1.5 segments (the center of inverted  
> flight) is the center of the maneuver.

So the center of a 2 of 4 is?  Start of knife edge?  End of knife edge?
>
>
> Is any level flight required before the full roll?
> *** Of course, you are flying a square with rounded corners. There  
> is level flight across the top and on the bottom (before the 2 of 4)  
> before these rolls. I suppose in theory you could start an immediate  
> slow roll after the 1/2 loop and make the slow roll the length of  
> the diameter of the 1/2 loop, and this may be OK, but you will not  
> see this.

Sounds correct.
>
> Where does the maneuver end?
> *** It ends 100' after the completion of the 'square'. IF we define  
> the start of the square, just when you cross the center line, the  
> end is as you cross the center line again + 100 feet. (give or take)

Sounds good.
>
> Is there still a requirement to have level entry and exits as there  
> was last time I read a rule book?
> *** I think so.

Good.  And thank you.

Jim O



> sc
>
> Just a little curious.  Not enough to read a rule book.
>
> Jim O
>
>
> On May 2, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:
>> The official description from the rule book is:
>>
>> Reverse Split S and Split S Combo, 2/4-pt roll first, full roll  
>> second, inverted exit.
>>
>> From upright, perform 2 points of a 4-pt roll, and push immediately  
>> to a half outside loop.  Perform a full
>> roll, followed immediately by a half outside loop, to exit inverted.
>>
>> Judging notes:
>> 1.  The outside half loops must follow immediately after the 2/4-pt  
>> roll and roll.
>> 2.  The length of the upper horizontal line (including roll) is  
>> equal to the diameter of the half loops.  The geometric shape is  
>> that of a Double Immelmann.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
>> ] On Behalf Of Budd Engineering
>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:58 AM
>> To: CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Clarification on FAI maneuver 1
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the following isn't correct (IIRC Jason and the  
>> Canucks corrected me on it at Phoenix), because the maneuver isn't  
>> a Double Immelman.  It's probably worth checking on though.
>>
>> "the lenght of the upper horizontal line (including roll) is equal  
>> tothe diameter of the half loops.
>> The geometric shape is that of of a Double Immelmann."
>>
>> Thx, Jerry
>>
>> Budd Engineering
>> jerry at buddengineering.com
>> http://www.buddengineering.com
>>
>>
>> On May 1, 2008, at 4:49 PM, Robert Gillespie wrote:
>>
>> > the lenght of the upper horizontal line (including roll) is equal
>> > tothe diameter of the half loops.
>> > The geometric shape is that of of a Double Immelmann.
>>
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>
>
>
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