[NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System

Fri Oct 30 11:45:38 AKDT 2015

The actual computer is less of an issue than how much malware and other
applications have been installed.  Any "clean" Win7 or later will suffice.
A Surface Pro may be a way to go.

Note that E-Scribe still uses the MasterScore app.  One solution to the
printer would be using a large monitor along with PatternScoring.com (like
we had a Canandaigua) This would require WiFi (phone hotspot?) and a second
computer at the field.  If you recall, Peter had a Raspberry Pi (something
like $40) running Chrome for the scoreboard.  I think a quality printer is
still required for the complete package however.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Anthony Romano via NSRCA-dist1 <
nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> Thank you again Dana for making the extra effort! Anyone else to join the
> D1 Scoring Team?
>
> Scott, what is the minimal system that would run Master Score? Also, how
> old of a system will run Master Score effectively. Just trying to get a
> sense if we could collect some of people unused not so current laptops for
> scoring purposes as opposed to buying equipment.
>
> Another issue is output. Trying to keep a printer running outdoors can be
> quite a challenge but is key to generating scores. I wound up writing them
> on poster board but we need to have scores available after each round.
> Anyone have ideas on how we can streamline this equipment need?
>
> Anthony
>
> ------------------------------
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System
> From: danamaenia at me.com
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 07:14:15 -0400
> CC: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com
> To: davel322 at comcast.net; nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org
>
>
> Agree with Dave’s observations about manpower, our recent contests and the
> problems to solve except for the funding part.  Our contests have been
> friendly & small; what proceeds there are need to go to the clubs that have
> closed their airfields for the day or weekend so we can have our contests.
> Perhaps if we had large turnouts like they have in D7, fund raising might
> be feasible but that is just not realistic for D1.  We are having fun at
> our small turnout contests so I don’t see that as the most rational problem
> to try to solve, given the recent history of D1 in the 5 years that I have
> been competing.
>
> Agree also with Anthony on solutions.  This year is a off year for both
> Sequence Committee and Contest Board, so I can volunteer for scoring team
> work in D1 if others will also support Anthony's idea.  We would need Scott
> Smith’s help to make this completely successful, IMO.  If Scott would
> contact me off thread, I can share some observations and ask for some
> specifics on how to solve.  We would not need a lot of volunteers to make
> this idea work for D1, but one or two more who either have reliable laptops
> running MS smoothly, know how to correctly install and operate MS, or would
> be willing to work during the off-season so we are ready to go with
> updated, primary and back-up computers (and printers) known to operate for
> our 2016 contests.  We can think through staffing for scoring ideas once
> the laptop solution is in sight. Will be much easier than a conversion to
> the Vogel system for 2016 IMO.  Dana
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Dave Lockhart via NSRCA-dist1 <
> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> D1 has never done much in the way of raising funds for the District.
>
> IF we start raising funds for the District….what is the best way to spend
> it?
>
> Some (somewhat) random thoughts -
>
> Manpower is much more of a problem at contests now than in the past.  More
> contests are being run by fewer people, and at smaller contests, running a
> single flightline is the only option.  If the contest were more efficient
> to run….that would help….the Vogel system is efficient (when working
> properly with a trained person to set it up and watch over it).
>
> Many of the problems I see at contests are due to inadequate planning /
> prep.  This is not a knock on the CDs or organizers….it is a reflection of
> ONE guy putting together the event and not having time to do a dry run, or
> operation check on all the equipment prior to the contest….so problems end
> up being found and addressed on the day of the contest.  A Vogel system
> will not help much here….and may be more difficult since it requires a
> greater level of knowledge/skill to get it right.
>
> I think the Vogel scoring system may (in time) increase the range of
> scores used, and reduce impression judging….the effect may not be as
> pronounced as predicted.  Is $2500 best spent on a Vogel system or on
> encouraging people to attend judging seminars, clinics, sponsoring pattern
> primers, etc?  Or on a “contest” laptop to be passed along contest to
> contest….and setup by a savvy scorekeeper at the beginning of each season?
>
> If we want $$$ for D1 (for whatever use)…we can “skim” a little from each
> contest entry fee.  We can run 50/50 raffles at every event.  We can sell
> D1 hats, Tshirts, etc.  And we can do a lot of these things at WRAM show
> and look for opportunities to do so at other events.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
>
> *From:* NSRCA-dist1 [mailto:nsrca-dist1-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <nsrca-dist1-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Anthony Romano via
> NSRCA-dist1
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 28, 2015 4:50 PM
> *To:* district one <nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System
>
> Thanks Dana. You beat me to the punch on a lot of this.
> My takeaway is that we still have some CDs struggling with scoring and
> Master Score setup resulting in the last minute spreadsheet and subsequent
> hair pulling.
>
> The idea of a few designated D1 laptops/printers and individuals to assist
> in scoring set up would be the first step before adding complexity. Now who
> would volunteer to part of a scoring team to manage this?
>
> Anthony
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:52:27 -0400
> To: vze23c3q at gmail.com; nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System
> From: nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org
> Good conversation!  I agree with John that there is a consistency issue to
> solve.  The problem I’ve observed is around legacy laptops not always
> reliability running Master Scoring.  Perhaps Scott can consult with us and
> we can see what can be done on a local level before contest season begins?
> Maybe we need a tech session at WRAM where CDs or score keepers can bring
> in their laptops for a tune-up (or assessment if the equipment is not up to
> the job)?
>
> No doubt there are many advantages to Peter Vogel’s system if it can be
> digested by those who choose to use it, but it remains to be seen if it
> changes judging behavior or outcomes.  Perhaps not as much as D7 would like
> us to believe?  I have not used it yet myself, but I go with Ed on the
> point about noting deductions as I see them.  The tech problem I see in D1
> would not necessarily be solved if we just have new problems that come with
> the new gear.  Sometimes less is more, especially when the main activity is
> competitively flying model aircraft, can be complex enough at (the wrong)
> times!
>
> To Joe’s point about better judging, D1 made a huge step forward this year
> in having a well attended Judging Clinic.  We should continue this so that
> all can improve our skills and assist the newcomers and growing Sportsman
> class maintain interest and gain competency.  Will be critical as they
> challenge Intermediate. We might even think of holding a second one in NJ
> or PA if one of the clubs that is not hosting a contest is interested in
> education as a more managable alternative.  (Mike, interested?)  Will help
> D1 get more people out to contests, or at least come back again in 2016, if
> they feel in the know.
>
> To Mike’s question, the investment is one of time rather than money (D1
> has none I think), and adding even one new contest to the calendar is a
> major committment for a flying club.  We actually have enough contests so
> my interest would be improving the quality of each that we have and
> increasing attendance, rather than holding more of them.  There is never
> enough stick time, practice, practice, LOL!
>
> We have a terrific DVP in Anthony who had done a great job for D1 in
> 2015.  We need to return the favor and all get a little more involved doing
> things in D1 as he has a new job and perhaps much less time to practice and
> contribute.  We all have great ideas, if we can put some of those to work
> on a proactive basis, D1 should continue to thrive in ’16!  As for raising
> $2,500 for the new system, perhaps we could just start with tending to the
> local laptops first so next season runs a little smoother for the CD’s and
> their non-combatant scoring volunteers (or wives).  Will make the contests
> more engaging for the newcomers too if results are not so painful to eek
> out or wait on.  That and judging clinic(s) will help us keep up the
> momentum.  Other ideas?
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2015, at 2:24 PM, Scott Smith via NSRCA-dist1 <
> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Score distribution of 4 contests using the E-Scribe and 4 using paper.
> Slightly higher scores overall with E-Scribe, but no difference below 6...I
> have to admit, that isn't quite what I expected!
>
> (screen capture below in case it gets clipped)
> <image.png>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Michael DiGennaro via NSRCA-dist1 <
> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
>  I may be a newbie to Pattern but I have vast experience in complex
> instant scoring systems. In this case there is only a "cool factor" and in
> my opinion no measurable affect on the outcome or attendance of a contest.
>
>
>  If D1 is to invest hard cash into something perhaps some more actual
> events/contests would be nice. Would our D1 folks benefit more from slick
> scoring or more flying?
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:02 AM, JOE LACHOWSKI via NSRCA-dist1 <
> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>
> Actually, there needs to be more focus on getting people to the contests.
>
>
> Joe Lachowski
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Ed Alt wrote:
>
> Yep!
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2015, at 10:52 AM, JOE LACHOWSKI via NSRCA-dist1 <
> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> I never look at scores. It only makes me angry. Only interested in results
> relative to my fellow competitors. LOL. Focusing on having better qualified
> and a bigger pool of judges than an automated scoring program is more
> important. I prefer writing on paper no matter what and will never use an
> automated system when I judge.
>
>
>
> Joe Lachowski
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Scott Smith via NSRCA-dist1 wrote:
>
> I think, more than anything, Peter's system provides for better judging.
> Points are deducted as defects are seen; no more impression judging.  If no
> defects are seen, it's a 10.  If numerous defects are flown, a 1 or 0 is
> easily possible.  Where as how many actually write a 1?   It also allows
> for the judge to never have take their eyes off the airplane to record a
> score.
>
> The logistics of moving scores and eliminating transcription errors is
> just gravy.
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:33 AM, John Ford via NSRCA-dist1 <
> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> I think that we need to remember what the core problem is…
> The core problem isn't the choice of scoring system, hi-tech, lo-tech, or
> anything else.
>
> The NSRCA's mission is to provide Contests and Contest Experiences to its
> members. That means that the local contest is king of everything we do and
> has the greatest influence on how our sport evolves and lives. (Sorry, but
> the NATS are a statistically trivial part of all NSRCA activity)
> From the perspective of a new Sportsman, THE SINGLE BIGGEST DEAL in
> his/her mind is seeing their score after the first round of their first
> contest…that's it.
>
> In the Districts (I've seen several, not only D1), we have volunteers/CD's
> who run the current "manual" software very very well, without a hitch, and
> posting rounds a few minutes after the last pilot lands. Within the same
> districts, there are contests where scores are simply not available at all
> until Sunday afternoon. We even see contests where an "on-the-spot" excel
> spreadsheet gets created on Saturday morning because of an unresolvable
> glitch in the software.
>
> So we have a consistency issue to solve, not necessarily a major
> technology obstacle to overcome.
>
> Probably relatively easy to solve the former, and much more demanding on
> someone's time to solve the latter via Peter's system.
>
> Just my opinion…
>
> John Ford
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2015, at 9:06 AM, Dana Beaton via NSRCA-dist1 <
> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>
> It’s a system Matt, and someone needs to set-up WiFi at each contest so
> that the scores are passed to the computer as the judges record them.
> Would require a non-trivial level of knowledge, training and commitment to
> implement and maintain in any District; that said, not insurmountable if
> that’s what any District wants to do and has volunteers who will see it
> through. What is perhaps as interesting is that how our members wish to
> score rounds at a contest?  There is a certain simplicity in the way we do
> it now, with pencil and paper, that is perhaps not something that all would
> like to discard for recording downgrades.  We could say that if it isn’t
> broke, don’t fix it; but to be honest that is not entirely the case, that
> what we do now is not broke; but Vogel’s solution is only one possible way
> to address what sometimes does not work well at our D1 contests. What do
> others think?
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2015, at 8:06 AM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote:
>
> I want to qualify my comments. I only have a passing interest in Peter's
> scoring system, so take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt. Bottom
> line, "I think" that it scores each maneuver directly into a database and
> produces immediate results after each pilot has flown. That's really cool!
> If I understand it right.
>
> I think that for D1 it's likely a mater of logistics. How many contests
> are there and what is the real workload the system likely to alleviate?
> Having the instant response is a nice to have but is it absolutely
> necessary? Are the required people who have been doing the job no longer
> available? Or is it one big hassle every Saturday morning and that's the
> real benefit? But someone still needs to manage something with this
> software, don't they?
>
> Money: Chances are that you the pilots will need to put up the money. You
> may ask the NSRCA board for assistance and might get 200$. And what about
> new pilots coming into pattern (in D1)? When do they participate with their
> wallets?
>
> Is the app enough technology to help a contest or do you have to have the
> full blown system?
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dana Beaton via NSRCA-dist1 <nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org>
> To: Anthony Romano <anthonyr105 at hotmail.com>; CT, DE, ME, MD, MA, NH, NJ,
> NY, PA, RI, VT, ME, MD, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT <
> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Wed, Oct 28, 2015 6:27 am
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System
> Aside from the obvious question of where would the $2,500 investment come
> from, I wish I could say that contest scoring has NOT been an issue in D1,
> and that we really don’t need a some solution.  With all due respect to our
> clubs, CDs, their assistants and volunteers who have been doing their very
> best with what they have to work with; we have had challenges in recent
> contests with legacy laptop computers and that remains an issue, albeit a
> local one for contests in 2016.  Now I would not go so far as to say that
> Vogel's solution is the right fit for D1; but it’s availability does beg
> the question if we can do better as a District; and raise the question if
> there is an alternative to continuing with the various local laptops?
> Perhaps D1 acquiring/updating a laptop or two to support contests at the
> District level as an intermediate step?  If we cannot supply/support a D1
> laptop or two, and manage the logistics of who has it, where & when, then
> we are not likely to pull off a full conversion to Vogel’s system.
>
> My observation is that we have enough capable volunteers at each contest
> to enter scores, many of whom are now familiar with Master Scoring
> software; but we have had an uneven experience with the the laptops
> themselves in recent years.  What do others think and is this an issue we
> want to address as D1 (or just let it stay local knowing that contests may
> not go as smoothly as they could if we had some robust D1 hardware backing
> our local efforts)?  Perhaps if we can manage the logistics of shepherding
> two D1 scoring computers around in 2016, we might upgrade to Vogel’s system
> in the future once additional members have been exposed to it enough to
> decide if they want to use it at their local contests (most D1 members do
> not travel to the Nats)?
>
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2015, at 9:00 PM, Anthony Romano via NSRCA-dist1 <
> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Please read the below message from Peter Vogel about the electronic
> scoring system he brought to the Canandaigua contest this year. Should D1
> invest in one of these systems? Anyone willing to manage this?
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
>
>
> After 2 very successful trouble-free runs at the SAM contest 2 weeks ago
> and the Cajun NATS last week.  Last Monday I finally decided it was time to
> submit the app formally to the app store rather than relying on development
> loads to individual iPod touches or TestFlight 30-day conk beta loads for
> my friends in Australia who have been experimenting with the app.  As more
> districts reach out to me with orders for fully configured setups I wanted
> to make sure I had a path to get software updates out to devices in a
> timely manner.
>
> So I'm pleased to announce that as of today the PatternScoring app for iOS
> is live on the App Store as a free app!
>
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/patternscoring/id1018433564?mt=8
>
> If you've never used the scribe app before, feel free to download and,
> with a good internet connection, use the "demo contest" mode to play with
> it.  Naturally the intent is to use it with a game controller, but the
> buttons on the screen with the picture of the game controller do work to
> give you a flavor for how things work.
>
> If you are using it on iOS 8, you will notice that the voice is a little
> bit fast.  That's because iOS 9 changed the pace of the voice synthesizer
> and I submitted the version to work best with the latest iOS (9).
>
> I've also completed a complete Bill of Materials for the contest scoring
> system, including two handy rolling cases with custom-cut foam for
> everything needed (except the laptop) to run a contest, I sell these at my
> cost of $2500, fully configured to run a contest out of the box (i.e.: I'm
> not trying to make money on this).  D8 just bought one, and D7 has bought
> two. If any other districts have an interest in getting one or more sets,
> please contact me directly and we can make appropriate arrangements.
> Please make sure you have one or more people in the district who are
> willing and able to take on the running of scoring at a contest using the
> system.  I'm making continuous refinements to the system to make it easier
> for anyone to run scoring, but it does require a certain level of comfort
> and familiarity with technology in general.
>
> Thanks!
> Peter+
>
> --
> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>
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> --
> Mike DiGennaro (Mike D.)
>
>
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