[NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System

Wed Oct 28 19:59:24 AKDT 2015

Just throwing this out there: It seems to me that for most of us, judging is
just our "duty" when we go to a contest. Let's face it, I don't think any of
us go to a contest to JUDGE rather than fly. Am I wrong? We need to make
judging more interesting. Why not institute some kind of ranking system for
judges and post the results at the end of the contest. Another form of
competition! Sounds like something everyone would enjoy.

FYI- Part of the reason why I haven't been to very many contests lately
(besides WORK) is the fact that I saw some very odd scores more than a few
times and I don't really know why. Back when Ziggy and I were battling it
out in 402 it was fun and the judging was very good. Now, I'm not so sure. L

John Pavlick

Cell: 203-417-4971

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Integrated Development Services

From: NSRCA-dist1 [mailto:nsrca-dist1-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
Anthony Romano via NSRCA-dist1
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 4:50 PM
To: district one
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System

Thanks Dana. You beat me to the punch on a lot of this. 

My takeaway is that we still have some CDs struggling with scoring and
Master Score setup resulting in the last minute spreadsheet and subsequent
hair pulling. 

The idea of a few designated D1 laptops/printers and individuals to assist
in scoring set up would be the first step before adding complexity. Now who
would volunteer to part of a scoring team to manage this?

Anthony

  _____  

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:52:27 -0400
To: vze23c3q at gmail.com; nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System
From: nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org

Good conversation!  I agree with John that there is a consistency issue to
solve.  The problem I've observed is around legacy laptops not always
reliability running Master Scoring.  Perhaps Scott can consult with us and
we can see what can be done on a local level before contest season begins?
Maybe we need a tech session at WRAM where CDs or score keepers can bring in
their laptops for a tune-up (or assessment if the equipment is not up to the
job)?

No doubt there are many advantages to Peter Vogel's system if it can be
digested by those who choose to use it, but it remains to be seen if it
changes judging behavior or outcomes.  Perhaps not as much as D7 would like
us to believe?  I have not used it yet myself, but I go with Ed on the point
about noting deductions as I see them.  The tech problem I see in D1 would
not necessarily be solved if we just have new problems that come with the
new gear.  Sometimes less is more, especially when the main activity is
competitively flying model aircraft, can be complex enough at (the wrong)
times!

To Joe's point about better judging, D1 made a huge step forward this year
in having a well attended Judging Clinic.  We should continue this so that
all can improve our skills and assist the newcomers and growing Sportsman
class maintain interest and gain competency.  Will be critical as they
challenge Intermediate. We might even think of holding a second one in NJ or
PA if one of the clubs that is not hosting a contest is interested in
education as a more managable alternative.  (Mike, interested?)  Will help
D1 get more people out to contests, or at least come back again in 2016, if
they feel in the know.

To Mike's question, the investment is one of time rather than money (D1 has
none I think), and adding even one new contest to the calendar is a major
committment for a flying club.  We actually have enough contests so my
interest would be improving the quality of each that we have and increasing
attendance, rather than holding more of them.  There is never enough stick
time, practice, practice, LOL!

We have a terrific DVP in Anthony who had done a great job for D1 in 2015.
We need to return the favor and all get a little more involved doing things
in D1 as he has a new job and perhaps much less time to practice and
contribute.  We all have great ideas, if we can put some of those to work on
a proactive basis, D1 should continue to thrive in '16!  As for raising
$2,500 for the new system, perhaps we could just start with tending to the
local laptops first so next season runs a little smoother for the CD's and
their non-combatant scoring volunteers (or wives).  Will make the contests
more engaging for the newcomers too if results are not so painful to eek out
or wait on.  That and judging clinic(s) will help us keep up the momentum.
Other ideas?

On Oct 28, 2015, at 2:24 PM, Scott Smith via NSRCA-dist1
<nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Score distribution of 4 contests using the E-Scribe and 4 using paper.
Slightly higher scores overall with E-Scribe, but no difference below 6...I
have to admit, that isn't quite what I expected!

(screen capture below in case it gets clipped)

<image.png>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Michael DiGennaro via NSRCA-dist1
<nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Folks, 

 I may be a newbie to Pattern but I have vast experience in complex instant
scoring systems. In this case there is only a "cool factor" and in my
opinion no measurable affect on the outcome or attendance of a contest. 

 If D1 is to invest hard cash into something perhaps some more actual
events/contests would be nice. Would our D1 folks benefit more from slick
scoring or more flying? 

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:02 AM, JOE LACHOWSKI via NSRCA-dist1
<nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Actually, there needs to be more focus on getting people to the contests. 

Joe Lachowski

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Ed Alt wrote:

Yep!

On Oct 28, 2015, at 10:52 AM, JOE LACHOWSKI via NSRCA-dist1
<nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

I never look at scores. It only makes me angry. Only interested in results
relative to my fellow competitors. LOL. Focusing on having better qualified
and a bigger pool of judges than an automated scoring program is more
important. I prefer writing on paper no matter what and will never use an
automated system when I judge.

Joe Lachowski

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Scott Smith via NSRCA-dist1 wrote:

I think, more than anything, Peter's system provides for better judging.
Points are deducted as defects are seen; no more impression judging.  If no
defects are seen, it's a 10.  If numerous defects are flown, a 1 or 0 is
easily possible.  Where as how many actually write a 1?   It also allows for
the judge to never have take their eyes off the airplane to record a score.

The logistics of moving scores and eliminating transcription errors is just
gravy. 

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:33 AM, John Ford via NSRCA-dist1
<nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

I think that we need to remember what the core problem is.

The core problem isn't the choice of scoring system, hi-tech, lo-tech, or
anything else. 

The NSRCA's mission is to provide Contests and Contest Experiences to its
members. That means that the local contest is king of everything we do and
has the greatest influence on how our sport evolves and lives. (Sorry, but
the NATS are a statistically trivial part of all NSRCA activity) 

>From the perspective of a new Sportsman, THE SINGLE BIGGEST DEAL in his/her
mind is seeing their score after the first round of their first
contest.that's it. 

In the Districts (I've seen several, not only D1), we have volunteers/CD's
who run the current "manual" software very very well, without a hitch, and
posting rounds a few minutes after the last pilot lands. Within the same
districts, there are contests where scores are simply not available at all
until Sunday afternoon. We even see contests where an "on-the-spot" excel
spreadsheet gets created on Saturday morning because of an unresolvable
glitch in the software. 

So we have a consistency issue to solve, not necessarily a major technology
obstacle to overcome. 

Probably relatively easy to solve the former, and much more demanding on
someone's time to solve the latter via Peter's system.

Just my opinion.

John Ford

On Oct 28, 2015, at 9:06 AM, Dana Beaton via NSRCA-dist1
<nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

It's a system Matt, and someone needs to set-up WiFi at each contest so that
the scores are passed to the computer as the judges record them.  Would
require a non-trivial level of knowledge, training and commitment to
implement and maintain in any District; that said, not insurmountable if
that's what any District wants to do and has volunteers who will see it
through. What is perhaps as interesting is that how our members wish to
score rounds at a contest?  There is a certain simplicity in the way we do
it now, with pencil and paper, that is perhaps not something that all would
like to discard for recording downgrades.  We could say that if it isn't
broke, don't fix it; but to be honest that is not entirely the case, that
what we do now is not broke; but Vogel's solution is only one possible way
to address what sometimes does not work well at our D1 contests. What do
others think?

On Oct 28, 2015, at 8:06 AM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote:

I want to qualify my comments. I only have a passing interest in Peter's
scoring system, so take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt. Bottom
line, "I think" that it scores each maneuver directly into a database and
produces immediate results after each pilot has flown. That's really cool!
If I understand it right.

I think that for D1 it's likely a mater of logistics. How many contests are
there and what is the real workload the system likely to alleviate? Having
the instant response is a nice to have but is it absolutely necessary? Are
the required people who have been doing the job no longer available? Or is
it one big hassle every Saturday morning and that's the real benefit? But
someone still needs to manage something with this software, don't they?

Money: Chances are that you the pilots will need to put up the money. You
may ask the NSRCA board for assistance and might get 200$. And what about
new pilots coming into pattern (in D1)? When do they participate with their
wallets?

Is the app enough technology to help a contest or do you have to have the
full blown system?

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Dana Beaton via NSRCA-dist1 <nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org>
To: Anthony Romano <anthonyr105 at hotmail.com>; CT, DE, ME, MD, MA, NH, NJ,
NY, PA, RI, VT, ME, MD, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT
<nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wed, Oct 28, 2015 6:27 am
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System

Aside from the obvious question of where would the $2,500 investment come
from, I wish I could say that contest scoring has NOT been an issue in D1,
and that we really don't need a some solution.  With all due respect to our
clubs, CDs, their assistants and volunteers who have been doing their very
best with what they have to work with; we have had challenges in recent
contests with legacy laptop computers and that remains an issue, albeit a
local one for contests in 2016.  Now I would not go so far as to say that
Vogel's solution is the right fit for D1; but it's availability does beg the
question if we can do better as a District; and raise the question if there
is an alternative to continuing with the various local laptops? Perhaps D1
acquiring/updating a laptop or two to support contests at the District level
as an intermediate step?  If we cannot supply/support a D1 laptop or two,
and manage the logistics of who has it, where & when, then we are not likely
to pull off a full conversion to Vogel's system. 

My observation is that we have enough capable volunteers at each contest to
enter scores, many of whom are now familiar with Master Scoring software;
but we have had an uneven experience with the the laptops themselves in
recent years.  What do others think and is this an issue we want to address
as D1 (or just let it stay local knowing that contests may not go as
smoothly as they could if we had some robust D1 hardware backing our local
efforts)?  Perhaps if we can manage the logistics of shepherding two D1
scoring computers around in 2016, we might upgrade to Vogel's system in the
future once additional members have been exposed to it enough to decide if
they want to use it at their local contests (most D1 members do not travel
to the Nats)?

On Oct 27, 2015, at 9:00 PM, Anthony Romano via NSRCA-dist1
<nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Please read the below message from Peter Vogel about the electronic scoring
system he brought to the Canandaigua contest this year. Should D1 invest in
one of these systems? Anyone willing to manage this?

Anthony

After 2 very successful trouble-free runs at the SAM contest 2 weeks ago and
the Cajun NATS last week.  Last Monday I finally decided it was time to
submit the app formally to the app store rather than relying on development
loads to individual iPod touches or TestFlight 30-day conk beta loads for my
friends in Australia who have been experimenting with the app.  As more
districts reach out to me with orders for fully configured setups I wanted
to make sure I had a path to get software updates out to devices in a timely
manner.   

So I'm pleased to announce that as of today the PatternScoring app for iOS
is live on the App Store as a free app!

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/patternscoring/id1018433564?mt=8

If you've never used the scribe app before, feel free to download and, with
a good internet connection, use the "demo contest" mode to play with it.
Naturally the intent is to use it with a game controller, but the buttons on
the screen with the picture of the game controller do work to give you a
flavor for how things work.

If you are using it on iOS 8, you will notice that the voice is a little bit
fast.  That's because iOS 9 changed the pace of the voice synthesizer and I
submitted the version to work best with the latest iOS (9).  

I've also completed a complete Bill of Materials for the contest scoring
system, including two handy rolling cases with custom-cut foam for
everything needed (except the laptop) to run a contest, I sell these at my
cost of $2500, fully configured to run a contest out of the box (i.e.: I'm
not trying to make money on this).  D8 just bought one, and D7 has bought
two. If any other districts have an interest in getting one or more sets,
please contact me directly and we can make appropriate arrangements.  Please
make sure you have one or more people in the district who are willing and
able to take on the running of scoring at a contest using the system.  I'm
making continuous refinements to the system to make it easier for anyone to
run scoring, but it does require a certain level of comfort and familiarity
with technology in general.

Thanks!

Peter+

-- 

Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training

Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark

Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X

Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)

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