[NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System

Mon Nov 2 15:02:09 AKST 2015

Anthony,

It might be hard to see the screen in direct sunlight. Most TVs are made to
be used under  indoor lighting conditions.

John Pavlick

Cell: 203-417-4971

idslogo2

Integrated Development Services

From: NSRCA-dist1 [mailto:nsrca-dist1-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
Anthony Romano via NSRCA-dist1
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 6:39 PM
To: district one
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System

Now that is kind of intriguing! Instead of hassling with a printer and ink
cartridges set up a scoreboard.

What would people think of just having a scoreboard and no printer?

 A quick web search yields a 32" flat screen at WallyWorld for $129 dollars
along with a Raspberry Pi for $40 could simplify our output and provide
dynamic results for under $200!

Anthony

  _____  

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 15:44:17 -0400
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System
From: vze23c3q at gmail.com
To: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com; nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org

The actual computer is less of an issue than how much malware and other
applications have been installed.  Any "clean" Win7 or later will suffice.
A Surface Pro may be a way to go.

Note that E-Scribe still uses the MasterScore app.  One solution to the
printer would be using a large monitor along with PatternScoring.com (like
we had a Canandaigua) This would require WiFi (phone hotspot?) and a second
computer at the field.  If you recall, Peter had a Raspberry Pi (something
like $40) running Chrome for the scoreboard.  I think a quality printer is
still required for the complete package however.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Anthony Romano via NSRCA-dist1
<nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Thank you again Dana for making the extra effort! Anyone else to join the D1
Scoring Team?

Scott, what is the minimal system that would run Master Score? Also, how old
of a system will run Master Score effectively. Just trying to get a sense if
we could collect some of people unused not so current laptops for scoring
purposes as opposed to buying equipment.

Another issue is output. Trying to keep a printer running outdoors can be
quite a challenge but is key to generating scores. I wound up writing them
on poster board but we need to have scores available after each round.
Anyone have ideas on how we can streamline this equipment need?

Anthony

  _____  

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System
From: danamaenia at me.com
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 07:14:15 -0400
CC: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com
To: davel322 at comcast.net; nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org

Agree with Dave's observations about manpower, our recent contests and the
problems to solve except for the funding part.  Our contests have been
friendly & small; what proceeds there are need to go to the clubs that have
closed their airfields for the day or weekend so we can have our contests.
Perhaps if we had large turnouts like they have in D7, fund raising might be
feasible but that is just not realistic for D1.  We are having fun at our
small turnout contests so I don't see that as the most rational problem to
try to solve, given the recent history of D1 in the 5 years that I have been
competing. 

Agree also with Anthony on solutions.  This year is a off year for both
Sequence Committee and Contest Board, so I can volunteer for scoring team
work in D1 if others will also support Anthony's idea.  We would need Scott
Smith's help to make this completely successful, IMO.  If Scott would
contact me off thread, I can share some observations and ask for some
specifics on how to solve.  We would not need a lot of volunteers to make
this idea work for D1, but one or two more who either have reliable laptops
running MS smoothly, know how to correctly install and operate MS, or would
be willing to work during the off-season so we are ready to go with updated,
primary and back-up computers (and printers) known to operate for our 2016
contests.  We can think through staffing for scoring ideas once the laptop
solution is in sight. Will be much easier than a conversion to the Vogel
system for 2016 IMO.  Dana

On Oct 28, 2015, at 11:49 PM, Dave Lockhart via NSRCA-dist1
<nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

D1 has never done much in the way of raising funds for the District.

IF we start raising funds for the District..what is the best way to spend
it?

Some (somewhat) random thoughts -

Manpower is much more of a problem at contests now than in the past.  More
contests are being run by fewer people, and at smaller contests, running a
single flightline is the only option.  If the contest were more efficient to
run..that would help..the Vogel system is efficient (when working properly
with a trained person to set it up and watch over it).

Many of the problems I see at contests are due to inadequate planning /
prep.  This is not a knock on the CDs or organizers..it is a reflection of
ONE guy putting together the event and not having time to do a dry run, or
operation check on all the equipment prior to the contest..so problems end
up being found and addressed on the day of the contest.  A Vogel system will
not help much here..and may be more difficult since it requires a greater
level of knowledge/skill to get it right.

I think the Vogel scoring system may (in time) increase the range of scores
used, and reduce impression judging..the effect may not be as pronounced as
predicted.  Is $2500 best spent on a Vogel system or on encouraging people
to attend judging seminars, clinics, sponsoring pattern primers, etc?  Or on
a "contest" laptop to be passed along contest to contest..and setup by a
savvy scorekeeper at the beginning of each season?

If we want $$$ for D1 (for whatever use).we can "skim" a little from each
contest entry fee.  We can run 50/50 raffles at every event.  We can sell D1
hats, Tshirts, etc.  And we can do a lot of these things at WRAM show and
look for opportunities to do so at other events.

Regards,

Dave

From: NSRCA-dist1 [mailto:nsrca-dist1-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
Anthony Romano via NSRCA-dist1
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 4:50 PM
To: district one <nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System

Thanks Dana. You beat me to the punch on a lot of this. 

My takeaway is that we still have some CDs struggling with scoring and
Master Score setup resulting in the last minute spreadsheet and subsequent
hair pulling. 

The idea of a few designated D1 laptops/printers and individuals to assist
in scoring set up would be the first step before adding complexity. Now who
would volunteer to part of a scoring team to manage this?

Anthony

  _____  

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:52:27 -0400
To:  <mailto:vze23c3q at gmail.com> vze23c3q at gmail.com;
<mailto:nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System
From:  <mailto:nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org

Good conversation!  I agree with John that there is a consistency issue to
solve.  The problem I've observed is around legacy laptops not always
reliability running Master Scoring.  Perhaps Scott can consult with us and
we can see what can be done on a local level before contest season begins?
Maybe we need a tech session at WRAM where CDs or score keepers can bring in
their laptops for a tune-up (or assessment if the equipment is not up to the
job)?

No doubt there are many advantages to Peter Vogel's system if it can be
digested by those who choose to use it, but it remains to be seen if it
changes judging behavior or outcomes.  Perhaps not as much as D7 would like
us to believe?  I have not used it yet myself, but I go with Ed on the point
about noting deductions as I see them.  The tech problem I see in D1 would
not necessarily be solved if we just have new problems that come with the
new gear.  Sometimes less is more, especially when the main activity is
competitively flying model aircraft, can be complex enough at (the wrong)
times!

To Joe's point about better judging, D1 made a huge step forward this year
in having a well attended Judging Clinic.  We should continue this so that
all can improve our skills and assist the newcomers and growing Sportsman
class maintain interest and gain competency.  Will be critical as they
challenge Intermediate. We might even think of holding a second one in NJ or
PA if one of the clubs that is not hosting a contest is interested in
education as a more managable alternative.  (Mike, interested?)  Will help
D1 get more people out to contests, or at least come back again in 2016, if
they feel in the know.

To Mike's question, the investment is one of time rather than money (D1 has
none I think), and adding even one new contest to the calendar is a major
committment for a flying club.  We actually have enough contests so my
interest would be improving the quality of each that we have and increasing
attendance, rather than holding more of them.  There is never enough stick
time, practice, practice, LOL!

We have a terrific DVP in Anthony who had done a great job for D1 in 2015.
We need to return the favor and all get a little more involved doing things
in D1 as he has a new job and perhaps much less time to practice and
contribute.  We all have great ideas, if we can put some of those to work on
a proactive basis, D1 should continue to thrive in '16!  As for raising
$2,500 for the new system, perhaps we could just start with tending to the
local laptops first so next season runs a little smoother for the CD's and
their non-combatant scoring volunteers (or wives).  Will make the contests
more engaging for the newcomers too if results are not so painful to eek out
or wait on.  That and judging clinic(s) will help us keep up the momentum.
Other ideas?

On Oct 28, 2015, at 2:24 PM, Scott Smith via NSRCA-dist1 <
<mailto:nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Score distribution of 4 contests using the E-Scribe and 4 using paper.
Slightly higher scores overall with E-Scribe, but no difference below 6...I
have to admit, that isn't quite what I expected!

(screen capture below in case it gets clipped)

<image.png>

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Michael DiGennaro via NSRCA-dist1 <
<mailto:nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Folks, 

 I may be a newbie to Pattern but I have vast experience in complex instant
scoring systems. In this case there is only a "cool factor" and in my
opinion no measurable affect on the outcome or attendance of a contest. 

 If D1 is to invest hard cash into something perhaps some more actual
events/contests would be nice. Would our D1 folks benefit more from slick
scoring or more flying? 

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:02 AM, JOE LACHOWSKI via NSRCA-dist1 <
<mailto:nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Actually, there needs to be more focus on getting people to the contests. 

Joe Lachowski

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Ed Alt wrote:

Yep!

On Oct 28, 2015, at 10:52 AM, JOE LACHOWSKI via NSRCA-dist1 <
<mailto:nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

I never look at scores. It only makes me angry. Only interested in results
relative to my fellow competitors. LOL. Focusing on having better qualified
and a bigger pool of judges than an automated scoring program is more
important. I prefer writing on paper no matter what and will never use an
automated system when I judge.

Joe Lachowski

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Scott Smith via NSRCA-dist1 wrote:

I think, more than anything, Peter's system provides for better judging.
Points are deducted as defects are seen; no more impression judging.  If no
defects are seen, it's a 10.  If numerous defects are flown, a 1 or 0 is
easily possible.  Where as how many actually write a 1?   It also allows for
the judge to never have take their eyes off the airplane to record a score.

The logistics of moving scores and eliminating transcription errors is just
gravy. 

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:33 AM, John Ford via NSRCA-dist1 <
<mailto:nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

I think that we need to remember what the core problem is.

The core problem isn't the choice of scoring system, hi-tech, lo-tech, or
anything else. 

The NSRCA's mission is to provide Contests and Contest Experiences to its
members. That means that the local contest is king of everything we do and
has the greatest influence on how our sport evolves and lives. (Sorry, but
the NATS are a statistically trivial part of all NSRCA activity) 

>From the perspective of a new Sportsman, THE SINGLE BIGGEST DEAL in his/her
mind is seeing their score after the first round of their first
contest.that's it. 

In the Districts (I've seen several, not only D1), we have volunteers/CD's
who run the current "manual" software very very well, without a hitch, and
posting rounds a few minutes after the last pilot lands. Within the same
districts, there are contests where scores are simply not available at all
until Sunday afternoon. We even see contests where an "on-the-spot" excel
spreadsheet gets created on Saturday morning because of an unresolvable
glitch in the software. 

So we have a consistency issue to solve, not necessarily a major technology
obstacle to overcome. 

Probably relatively easy to solve the former, and much more demanding on
someone's time to solve the latter via Peter's system.

Just my opinion.

John Ford

On Oct 28, 2015, at 9:06 AM, Dana Beaton via NSRCA-dist1 <
<mailto:nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

It's a system Matt, and someone needs to set-up WiFi at each contest so that
the scores are passed to the computer as the judges record them.  Would
require a non-trivial level of knowledge, training and commitment to
implement and maintain in any District; that said, not insurmountable if
that's what any District wants to do and has volunteers who will see it
through. What is perhaps as interesting is that how our members wish to
score rounds at a contest?  There is a certain simplicity in the way we do
it now, with pencil and paper, that is perhaps not something that all would
like to discard for recording downgrades.  We could say that if it isn't
broke, don't fix it; but to be honest that is not entirely the case, that
what we do now is not broke; but Vogel's solution is only one possible way
to address what sometimes does not work well at our D1 contests. What do
others think?

On Oct 28, 2015, at 8:06 AM,  <mailto:rcmaster199 at aol.com>
rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote:

I want to qualify my comments. I only have a passing interest in Peter's
scoring system, so take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt. Bottom
line, "I think" that it scores each maneuver directly into a database and
produces immediate results after each pilot has flown. That's really cool!
If I understand it right.

I think that for D1 it's likely a mater of logistics. How many contests are
there and what is the real workload the system likely to alleviate? Having
the instant response is a nice to have but is it absolutely necessary? Are
the required people who have been doing the job no longer available? Or is
it one big hassle every Saturday morning and that's the real benefit? But
someone still needs to manage something with this software, don't they?

Money: Chances are that you the pilots will need to put up the money. You
may ask the NSRCA board for assistance and might get 200$. And what about
new pilots coming into pattern (in D1)? When do they participate with their
wallets?

Is the app enough technology to help a contest or do you have to have the
full blown system?

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Dana Beaton via NSRCA-dist1 < <mailto:nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org>
nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org>
To: Anthony Romano < <mailto:anthonyr105 at hotmail.com>
anthonyr105 at hotmail.com>; CT, DE, ME, MD, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT, ME,
MD, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT < <mailto:nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org>
nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wed, Oct 28, 2015 6:27 am
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist1] PatternScoring System

Aside from the obvious question of where would the $2,500 investment come
from, I wish I could say that contest scoring has NOT been an issue in D1,
and that we really don't need a some solution.  With all due respect to our
clubs, CDs, their assistants and volunteers who have been doing their very
best with what they have to work with; we have had challenges in recent
contests with legacy laptop computers and that remains an issue, albeit a
local one for contests in 2016.  Now I would not go so far as to say that
Vogel's solution is the right fit for D1; but it's availability does beg the
question if we can do better as a District; and raise the question if there
is an alternative to continuing with the various local laptops? Perhaps D1
acquiring/updating a laptop or two to support contests at the District level
as an intermediate step?  If we cannot supply/support a D1 laptop or two,
and manage the logistics of who has it, where & when, then we are not likely
to pull off a full conversion to Vogel's system. 

My observation is that we have enough capable volunteers at each contest to
enter scores, many of whom are now familiar with Master Scoring software;
but we have had an uneven experience with the the laptops themselves in
recent years.  What do others think and is this an issue we want to address
as D1 (or just let it stay local knowing that contests may not go as
smoothly as they could if we had some robust D1 hardware backing our local
efforts)?  Perhaps if we can manage the logistics of shepherding two D1
scoring computers around in 2016, we might upgrade to Vogel's system in the
future once additional members have been exposed to it enough to decide if
they want to use it at their local contests (most D1 members do not travel
to the Nats)?

On Oct 27, 2015, at 9:00 PM, Anthony Romano via NSRCA-dist1 <
<mailto:nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Please read the below message from Peter Vogel about the electronic scoring
system he brought to the Canandaigua contest this year. Should D1 invest in
one of these systems? Anyone willing to manage this?

Anthony

After 2 very successful trouble-free runs at the SAM contest 2 weeks ago and
the Cajun NATS last week.  Last Monday I finally decided it was time to
submit the app formally to the app store rather than relying on development
loads to individual iPod touches or TestFlight 30-day conk beta loads for my
friends in Australia who have been experimenting with the app.  As more
districts reach out to me with orders for fully configured setups I wanted
to make sure I had a path to get software updates out to devices in a timely
manner.   

So I'm pleased to announce that as of today the PatternScoring app for iOS
is live on the App Store as a free app!

 <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/patternscoring/id1018433564?mt=8>
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/patternscoring/id1018433564?mt=8

If you've never used the scribe app before, feel free to download and, with
a good internet connection, use the "demo contest" mode to play with it.
Naturally the intent is to use it with a game controller, but the buttons on
the screen with the picture of the game controller do work to give you a
flavor for how things work.

If you are using it on iOS 8, you will notice that the voice is a little bit
fast.  That's because iOS 9 changed the pace of the voice synthesizer and I
submitted the version to work best with the latest iOS (9).  

I've also completed a complete Bill of Materials for the contest scoring
system, including two handy rolling cases with custom-cut foam for
everything needed (except the laptop) to run a contest, I sell these at my
cost of $2500, fully configured to run a contest out of the box (i.e.: I'm
not trying to make money on this).  D8 just bought one, and D7 has bought
two. If any other districts have an interest in getting one or more sets,
please contact me directly and we can make appropriate arrangements.  Please
make sure you have one or more people in the district who are willing and
able to take on the running of scoring at a contest using the system.  I'm
making continuous refinements to the system to make it easier for anyone to
run scoring, but it does require a certain level of comfort and familiarity
with technology in general.

Thanks!

Peter+

-- 

Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training

Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark

Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X

Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)

  <http://blocked/>   <http://blocked/> 

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