[NSRCA-discussion] New Masters Maneuver

Thu Nov 4 17:01:18 AKDT 2021

Stuart is correct.  Here is a diagram of that.

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Matt Griffitt via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 7:28 PM
To: Stuart Chale; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Masters Maneuver

I take it as this. The 1st is the loop you must start and end at the same point making a full 360 equal geometry.  The 4 point roll is done on the 180 deg of the loop the 4 points must be equal segements of the 1/2 loop. That includes the pause while still haveing to fly the loop. Samething as a normal 4 point you pause but still have to fly the straight line.

On Thu, Nov 4, 2021, 7:17 PM Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

I don’t think you can have hesitations before the rolling elements in integrated rolls.  (You do but it is part of the loop)  If we allow a hesitation before beginning a roll over the top 180 degrees then that hesitation could easily be 15 degrees of the loop on both sides. So the start and stop position of the roll would be almost arbitrary as long as it is after the prescribed starting point. Can’t effectively judge that.

As far as positioning of the rolls lets assume equal travel over the loop segment for all elements.  90 deg roll, knife edge, 90 deg roll, upright flight, 90 degree roll, knife edge, 90 deg roll.

7 elements in 180 degrees.  Each element covers 25.7 degrees.

The first roll travels from 90 degrees to 115.7.  The knife edge is from 115.7 to 141.4.. Center of the knifedge portion is at  128.55

The next roll is from 141.4 through 167.1.  The upright flight is from 167.1 through 192.8

Center of the upright flight is at 180 degrees

The next roll is from 192.8 to 218.5 and the second knife edge segment is from 

218.5 through 244.2 and the final roll from 244.2 to 270

(lost a tenth from rounding errors)

Stuart

rom: john tarpinian <jtarpinian at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 6:51 PM
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; Stuart Chale <schale1 at outlook.com>
Cc: Don Ramsey <donramsey at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Masters Maneuver

My previous interpretation was in fact the way I was doing it.   But after further analysis I was doing it wrong.  I see what Stu is saying but here is another interpretation.

1.   After completing 1/4 loop hesitate briefly and roll to knife edge with knife edge portion centered at 10:30.

2.   Roll to upright with upright portion centered at 12:00.

3.   Roll to knife edge with knife edge centered at 1:30.

4.   Complete roll a little before 3:00 just as if it was another point centered on 3:00.

This matches Stu's interpretation at the 10:30, 12:00,  and 1:30 positions but differs at the 9:00 and 3:00 positions.   However, the maneuver is now completely symmetric.  If you start and end the roll at the begining and end of the half loop the begining and last 1/4 rolls will be longer than the others.

j

On Thursday, November 4, 2021, 05:39:07 PM EDT, Stuart Chale <schale1 at outlook.com> wrote: 

I have always judged integrated rolls with the start and completion of the roll within the designated arc. A half roll over the top 90 starts and completes the half roll at the 45 degree points.  

The four point would be the same the roll starts at 90. 180 should be the mid point of the upright or inverted section and the plane should complete the last 90 degree roll at 270 degrees. 

Stuart

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:36 PM, john tarpinian via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

I would say it's not symmetrical in that after the first 1/4 loop there is a hesitation but just before reaching the 3:00 position you are rolling.    My interpretation assuming entering the loop from the right.

1. After completing first 1/4 loop, hesitate and perform 1/4 roll coming to knife edge at 10:30

2. Hesitate and then perform 1/4 roll to coming to upright at 12:00.

3.  Hesitate and come to knife edge at 1:30.

4.  Hesitate and complete roll at 3:00.  

The NSRCA description makes it sound like you should begin the roll at 9:00.  See below.

 Loop with integrated 4 point roll over the top 180 degrees. (U): From upright pull a ¼ inside loop, continue the loop while rolling 90 degrees, hesitate the roll while continuing the loop, roll 90° in the same direction while continuing loop, hesitate the roll while continuing loop, the center of this hesitation should be at top dead center of the loop, roll 90° in the same direction while continuing the loop, hesitate the roll while continuing the loop, roll 90° in the same direction while continuing the loop, completing the roll at 270° of the loop, pull ¼ inside loop to exit in level horizontal flight.

On Thursday, November 4, 2021, 03:52:13 PM EDT, Don Ramsey via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote: 

Food for thought.  In the new Masters sequence, think about the loop with a 4 point roll.  Where do the rolls start and where are the key points for KE, Up-right, KE, and finish. Is the up-right portion of the roll symmetrical around center?

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