[NSRCA-discussion] Where does the maneuver start?

[kvelez at rochester.rr.com]

The Square has to be kept symetrical. So the end of it is a line after the 1/2 roll. The maneuver begining is a line of the same length as the exit line prior to the 1/2 roll.KenSent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone------ Original message------From: Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussionDate: Thu, Jul 11, 2019 9:19 AMTo: Don Ramsey;General pattern discussion;Cc: Subject:Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Where does the maneuver start?I don't always assume a center beginning but I expect a significant line before the maneuver would require a deviation from horizontal. For the double I you mentioned center would be a fair spot for the straight line to begin since some distance very soon the plane will deviate to begin the half loop. With any Immelman the roll should be immediate upon reaching horizontal and the push for the second half loop should be immediately after the wings return to level. The end point should be would be where the wing returns to level when completing the second KE and this sh
 ould coincide to the start of the initial pull for maximum points.Anthony________________________________From: NSRCA-discussion  on behalf of Don Ramsey via NSRCA-discussion Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2019 8:11 AMTo: 'General pattern discussion'Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Where does the maneuver start?My question would be, doesn’t the last horizontal line of the square form part of the square.FAI: All manoeuvres must be entered and exited with straight and level upright or inverted flight of recognisable length.AMA: Each time the model passes in front of the judges, a maneuver must be executed….  All aerobatic maneuvers are started and ended by a horizontal line.I can’t find any reference to the length of this line except in the case of unscored turnarounds where it must be at least 15 meters.I’ve always judged these type maneuvers as if they start at center with a recognizable line before center.  In the square, the final leg connects and finishes the maneuver.  So in thi
 s case, the bottom of the square is formed by a half line that starts at center and finished by the line on the last leg.This is an interesting question as I’ve never considered Derek’s interpretation.  It just never occurred to me and I don’t even try to fly it like that.  I have always thought of say the Masters double immelmann, triangle, or any square as starting at center.  The question then becomes where is the exit.  The last line is just a retrace of a prior line and the maneuver finishes with a straight line after the point where the first radii of the maneuver was started.  On the double immelmann I try to roll wings level at the point where I started the first half loop.  All lines contribute to the shape of the maneuver.Of course, there are many maneuvers that do start before center.DonFrom: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussionSent: Wednesday, July 10, 2019 10:03 AMTo: Anthony Romano; G
 eneral pattern discussionSubject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Where does the maneuver start?Since the last maneuver is a centered square, the first line of the square is the bottom and thus starts before center. As Anthony mentions all maneuvers start and end with a straight line so one must assume that a straight horizontal line of reasonable length must be visible before that straight line is flown before center.  I would think that the judge would make a determination about the start line once the first vertical portion is started and then they could determine if the straight line in was proportional to the maneuver.So, if the first vertical line starts at 50 yards past center then there should have been at least 50+ yards of straight horizontal flight prior to center in order for the maneuver to look like a square and be proportional.Sent from my iPhoneOn Jul 10, 2019, at 7:28 AM, Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion > wrote:Without digging through the rule book for chapter and verse 
 all maneuvers begin and end with a straight line. So the beginning would be a straight line of significant length prior to be obviously clear that it is a straight line. If the pilot locks the plane in wings level dead horizontal flight it could be a few seconds or what ever that translates to in distance that could be enough such as after the trombone and before the golf ball in masters
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