[NSRCA-discussion] Gryo's in Pattern?

[Archie Stafford]

There would be zero advantage to FPV.

On Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 10:37 AM David Cook via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org wrote:

> Brings up an interesting point. Should we also now allow FPV? I can see a
> tremendous competitive advantage to gyro and FPV.
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 7:29 PM Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>> Good point.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 6:18 PM Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Given that you have one in your brain and the seat of your pants, not to
>>> mention simple things like a strip of yarn on the windshield to tell you
>>> whether your turn is coordinated, altimeters, etc. I'd have to say, the
>>> equivalent of a gyro is allowed :-)
>>>
>>> Peter+
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 4:15 PM Vicente Bortone <vincebrc at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I got a question.  Are gyros allowed in real aerobatics competition?
>>>>
>>>> Vicente “Vince” Bortone
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 4:29 PM Wayne Galigan via NSRCA-discussion <
>>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All this talk about gyros  is making me hungry.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 3:46 PM Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion <
>>>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On the face of it, I agree with Jon.  That said, I think the same
>>>>>> concerns existed in F3C about 5-7 years back, but they started allowing
>>>>>> Flybarless system electronics (which are effectively 3D gyros) and their
>>>>>> world didn't implode.  From my perspective having flown some Gyro-enabled
>>>>>> aircraft (obviously not in competition) the gyro actually buys you VERY
>>>>>> little.  It makes the lines smoother, but the geometric challenges,
>>>>>> centering, throttle control, etc. all apply and are NOT solved by the
>>>>>> gyro.  In fact, some things become significantly harder with a gyro (i.e a
>>>>>> stall turn) as the gyro is actively fighting the intended behavior of the
>>>>>> plane.  This was also the conclusion, IIRC, of the committee that reviewed
>>>>>> whether to allow FBL in F3C.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter+
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 1:01 PM Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion <
>>>>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This defeats the whole point of the sportsman pattern: to fly
>>>>>>> straight lines, establish angles, and to put the plane where you want it,
>>>>>>> not where it wants to go. Most sport fliers can't fly a straight line if
>>>>>>> their life depends on it. New pattern flyers are amazed when I make them
>>>>>>> practice straight and level flight over and over before I left them try
>>>>>>> manuevers. After awhile, they see the point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have a guy in our club who flies gyros all the time. When they
>>>>>>> are on, he can fly beautiful lines, slow rolls, point rolls, etc. Turn them
>>>>>>> off, and he's all over the sky. Sportsman would be won by someone who could
>>>>>>> set up their gyros the best, not by someone who had the most control of
>>>>>>> their airplane. So basically, intermediate would become the entry point for
>>>>>>> pattern. So we'd have to dumb that down so that people could learn to fly
>>>>>>> their planes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> On Friday, January 18, 2019 tim pritchett via NSRCA-discussion <
>>>>>>> tjpritchett at aol.com; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On the additional subject of gyros/stabilization use in pattern, we
>>>>>>> posted a Poll on the D2 facebook page asking:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *So, what would you think about a rules change proposal that allowed
>>>>>>> gyros in Sportsman and Intermediate, for any plane below 1.8M (70.9") span,
>>>>>>> and length?*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The results  thus far are:
>>>>>>> 16 for,
>>>>>>> 25 against
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My comment would be that Intermediate is too competitive for this,
>>>>>>> and we should/could restrict gyros to Sportsman only in a proposal.  Club
>>>>>>> is not an AMA class, so we can already do anything we want there.
>>>>>>> Any other comments?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can also join, vote, and comment, or review comments on the page
>>>>>>> if you prefer:
>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/NSRCADistrict2/
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>>>>>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>>>>>> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>>>>>> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>>> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>>> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>>>
>>> --
>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
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