[NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane...

Fri Jan 4 11:41:44 AKST 2019

If a guy enters Pattern or returns to Pattern and flew a smaller airplane to get the bonus…….by the time he wants/needs a 2m airplane he will have spent a lot more money than if he just flew the 2m in the first place.

When does the new guy quit??

Before he gets started with the smaller airplane or later after he wants/needs the 2m??

The end result is the same as we are now.

Nobody has ever flown high performance airplanes on the cheap…..ever.

I like the promotion ideas mentioned earlier.

I don’t buy into the idea that expense is keeping guys from trying Pattern.

It’s difficult….it takes some dedication…it takes some knowledge and a mentor.

You cannot go to Walmart and buy a Pattern airplane….BUT…you can get a drone and fly it as soon as you can get home.

Some new prospects might use the ‘expense’ excuse because (insert your fav reason here).

I think new Pattern pilots ARE out there…..they just don’t know it yet.

Scott….I think you are right on the money.

David Harmon

NSRCA 586

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 12:59 PM
To: Dr. Mike Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane...

Mike,

You're further limiting by, in two years' time, eliminating the 2M ships from competing in Sportsman or Intermediate and thus, removing some of our biggest advocates of pattern which are current participants.  What if there are some guys that have already spent the money on a 2M ship, old or new, and have no desire to buy a smaller ship because they enjoy flying and competing with their existing ship?  Are you saying, too bad?  Move up or buy another plane?

You and I both know several individuals in D6 now that fall into this category.  One of them, we'll call him Mike P., is getting older and probably will never see anything but Intermediate or Sportsman as long as he can fly because that's what he enjoys.  This same man is one of the reasons to stay in pattern.  Whether he feels good enough to fly or not, he is at every D6 contest there is.  He may only fly 2 flights or he may fly all 6.  Either way, he is there and participates and supports pattern.  You are, effectively, giving him an ultimatum now.  This is exactly how you are further limiting instead of just simply changing the limitations.  There are several more just in D6 that I'm sure you can name or think of just as I.  I'd hate to lose people because of a rule that doesn't take that point of view into account.

Scott

Scott A. McHarg

Takeoff is optional.  Landing is mandatory!

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 11:57 AM Dr. Mike Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net <mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net> > wrote:

Scott,

Thanks for the reply,  not sure what you mean by limiting planes is done at the 2m level and nothing more.  I am not further limiting airplanes, I am changing the limit for 2 initial classes from 2M to a smaller size.  In my opinion the 2M size is detrimental for beginners for the many reasons I explained.  Many of the other events have made substantial changes to encourage participation.  We have not.  

Regards 

Mike 

From: Scott McHarg [mailto:scmcharg at gmail.com <mailto:scmcharg at gmail.com> ] 
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 11:33 AM
To: Dr. Mike Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net <mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net> >
Cc: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >; james woodward <jimwoodward89 at gmail.com <mailto:jimwoodward89 at gmail.com> >; ronlock at comcast.net <mailto:ronlock at comcast.net> 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane...

Mike,

I've proposed and have had pass multiple rules.  I get it.  Concerning social media and what not, I wasn't suggesting that an individual do that, I'm suggesting that we as an organization (which certainly has more pull than any individual) do so.  Limiting planes is done at the 2M level and nothing more.  You're suggesting to further limit airplanes in classes that most people would want to try.  That is why I do not believe your proposal is better.

Scott

Scott A. McHarg

Takeoff is optional.  Landing is mandatory!

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 11:16 AM Dr. Mike Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net <mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net> > wrote:

Scott 

Thanks for the reply and a suggested solution.  

1.        Limiting planes-that is already done.  It is in place and I am simply changing the limits to smaller planes to make the lower classes much easier and more affordable is my goal.  I have explained my rationale to a considerable extent.  I am not making it more detrimental by doing so.

2.       If you are for the other bonus system then I strongly recommend you submit a rules proposal for such.  Seek your board rep for help.  It would give the contest board options.  I believe my proposal is better.  

3.       If you want to get on social media or whatever please do so.  I simply don’t have time and it isn’t my thing. 

Mike 

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto: <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussionu 
Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 11:05 AM
To: james woodward < <mailto:jimwoodward89 at gmail.com> jimwoodward89 at gmail.com>; General pattern discussion < <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Cc:  <mailto:ronlock at comcast.net> ronlock at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane...

Mike,

We don't often disagree but I have to say that limiting planes in any class could be more detrimental than some bonus level.  Limiting planes limits participation.  If it's true that people don't enter a contest with a smaller aircraft that's not 2M because it won't be competitive then they should feel overjoyed to know that they receive a bonus with a new rule.  Heck, I'd buy a smaller aircraft just to get the bonus!  I watched my friend Justin compete with one of those foam FMA planes in Intermediate a few years ago for his first time ever and finish 4th out of, I believe, 8.  Give him that bonus and he could of easily placed with how tight the contest was.  Again, limiting the choices one can fly is what will limit participation.  More importantly, we need to dive into social media and expand our horizons and not stay in our comfort box, so to speak.  I'm amazed by how many folks that come out to our field that are very good pilots that haven't even really heard of pattern before and ogle at the planes when they see them.  It's not the good ole days anymore.  We need to advance our facet of this hobby by adapting to new generations who communicate much differently than we did/do.  Giving a bonus "could" give a reason for people to try it and also entice those that want to "try it again" or get back in that don't have the skills to fly the higher classes by allowing them to fly older 2M ships (or even the latest design).  If we want to grow, we have to stop limiting.

Scott

Scott A. McHarg

Takeoff is optional  Landing is mandatory!

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 10:23 AM james woodward via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > wrote:

+1 - bonus-up the smaller plane.  

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 8:13 AM ronlock--- via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > wrote:

Lets consider; for those choosing to use a plane with the specs Mike proposed, adding a 5 or 10% "Bonus" of scored points to the flight score.  2 meter planes are still allowed. The smaller plane gets some help, hopefully making it more attractive/competitive for an entry level pilot. The exact percentage can be tweaked along the way as we gain experience with it. 
Ron Lockhart

PS:  The percentage of score concept worked great in the "Lets get planes quiet era".  We wanted to establish a noise limit, but not disqualify planes that exceeded it. It's still in the rule book.
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