[NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA-discussion Digest, Vol 144, Issue 14
STEVE S
steve at ironstarmechanical.com
Tue Nov 14 12:11:12 AKST 2017
The rules are written if we do not follow the rules and make up rules for
how we see fit is a dictatorship. Nothing is saying he cannot go at his own
expense and compete if he is under the age limit.
He will need to qualify for the team to go again.
Just my 2 cents it is very black and white.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
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Behalf Of nsrca-discussion-request at lists.nsrca.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 3:00 PM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: NSRCA-discussion Digest, Vol 144, Issue 14
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: F3A World Result (Dave Burton)
2. Re: F3A World Result (Derek Koopowitz)
3. Re: F3A World Result (Jon Lowe)
4. Re: F3A World Result (Scott McHarg)
5. Re: F3A World Result (Peter Vogel)
6. Re: F3A World Result (Peter Vogel)
7. Re: F3A World Result (Joe Lachowski)
8. Re: F3A World Result (davel322 at comcast.net)
9. Re: F3A World Result (Matthew Finley)
10. Re: F3A World Result (Robert L. Beaubien)
11. Re: F3A World Result (Jas S)
12. Re: F3A World Result (Scott)
13. Re: F3A World Result (Ronald Van Putte)
14. Zero Judges at WC's (Jeff Worsham)
15. Re: Zero Judges at WC's (Charles Hochhalter)
16. Re: Zero Judges at WC's (Vogel, Peter)
17. Re: Zero Judges at WC's (Jeff Worsham)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:16:57 -0500
From: "Dave Burton" <burtona at atmc.net>
To: "'Kevin Young'" <kcy01 at hotmail.com>, "'General pattern
discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID: <001201d35cc4$bd8ee3c0$38acab40$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I think I agree with Derek. As much as I would like Joseph to be an
automatic invite I don't think he would qualify for the invite if he has
aged out of Jr. status.
I don't see any ambiguity either. Rules are as written not what we wish they
were. "in that category" seems pretty clear to me.
I guess the rules will be what the FAI officials say they are.
Dave
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Kevin Young via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 3:18 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Derek, I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
basically as a two part statement with
a) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held
b) If he is not a member of the national team, his score will not be
considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be read
as the catch to the wording of the rule)
The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an official Team
participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely lacking
youth!
Kevin Young
_____
From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf
of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
To: Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote it.
Here is the rule:
d) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held. If he is not a member of the national team, his
score will not be considered in the team results.
The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior pilot
when the next World or Continental Championships are held. Also, the first
sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental Championships
in that category" - the category is Junior.
I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don Ramsey" <donramsey at gmail.com> wrote:
Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is
over 18 but would not be part of the team. So, could have 5 US entrants but
only 4 team members.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
Cc: MarkAtwood
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019. Will he?
?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org on behalf of
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org%20on%20behalf%20of%20nsrca-
discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > wrote:
He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr. Champion
(according to the rules)
Jas iP
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!! Looks like Joseph is
ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
>
> Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
> To: "Bill Harden" <flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
> Cc: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
>
>
>
> Onda
> CPLR
> Shulman
> Jesky
> Bruckman
> Lassi (Finland)
> Kaiser
> Szczur
> Glenn
> Trumpp
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden
<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> #yiv2101667059
> #yiv2101667059 --
>
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
> 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
> #yiv2101667059
> #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
> {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
> #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
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> {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
> #yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
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> {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
> #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
> {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
> #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
> {}
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> #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
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> #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
> {}
> #yiv2101667059
> Would someone please tell
> me the final result? Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:24:08 -0800
From: Derek Koopowitz <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>
To: Kevin Young <kcy01 at hotmail.com>, General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID:
<CALP+QLC9NXtLuZJzJZ998t4nDscU=64FqMZHhKTjKxZ0e53ofg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Kevin,
The point of that rule was to level the playing field, so to speak, so that
a Junior WC could still defend their title at the next WC. That was never
the case in the 3 prior WCs - the Junior category was added to the WCs in
2011. Also, the Jury can't make a decision for everyone - they can only
impact the WC in progress. Now, if a rule change is needed, or a
clarification needs to be made going forward, based on the decision of the
Jury at a WC (based on a protest), then this type of issue needs to be
raised at the F3A Sub-committee level, and once there is agreement there
then it should be voted and accepted at the Bureau level. If a
clarification is made then it needs to be official and the wording needs to
be changed to address it.
BTW, I'm all for increasing the exposure of young people to the sport at
the highest level.
-Derek
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Young via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> Derek, I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
> basically as a two part statement with
>
>
> a) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the
> right (subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to
> participate in the next World or Continental Championships in that
category
> regardless of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and
> provided that he will still be a junior pilot when the next World or
> Continental Championships are held
>
>
> b) *If he is not a member of the national team*, his score will not be
> considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be
read
> as the catch to the wording of the rule)
>
> The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an official Team
> participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
>
> my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
> exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely lacking
> youth!
>
> Kevin Young
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
> behalf of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
> *To:* Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>
> That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote it.
> Here is the rule:
>
> d) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
> (subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
> in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
> of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
> will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
> Championships are held. If he is not a member of the national team, his
> score will not be considered in the team results.
>
> The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior pilot
> when the next World or Continental Championships are held. Also, the
first
> sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental
Championships
> in that category" - the category is Junior.
>
> I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
>
>
> ?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don Ramsey" <donramsey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is
> over 18 but would not be part of the team. So, could have 5 US entrants
> but only 4 team members.
>
> Don
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-
> bounces at lists.nsrca.org <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On
> Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
> To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
> Cc: MarkAtwood
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>
> Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019. Will he?
>
> ?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
> NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org on behalf of
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr.
> Champion (according to the rules)
>
> Jas iP
>
> > On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> >
> > And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!! Looks like Joseph
> is ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
> >
> > Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
> > To: "Bill Harden" <flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
> > Cc: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.
> org>
> > Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Onda
> > CPLR
> > Shulman
> > Jesky
> > Bruckman
> > Lassi (Finland)
> > Kaiser
> > Szczur
> > Glenn
> > Trumpp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden <
> flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > #yiv2101667059
> > #yiv2101667059 --
> >
> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
> > 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
> > #yiv2101667059
> > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> > li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> > div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
> > {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
> > #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
> > span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlink
> > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
> > #yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
> > span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlinkFollowed
> > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
> > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> > li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> > div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
> > {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
> > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
> > {}
> > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
> > {color:windowtext;}
> > #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
> > {font-size:10.0pt;}
> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
> > #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
> > {}
> > #yiv2101667059
> > Would someone please tell
> > me the final result? Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:35:18 -0500
From: Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com>
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID: <15fb74ed24f-c0a-19126 at webjas-vae075.srv.aolmail.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In other words, if Joseph had elected to return this year as reigning Junior
WC rather than as part of the team, we could have sent another Junior this
year. Not sure if other Juniors entered the team trials at the 2016 Nats,
but assuming some did, one of them could have gone. Joseph's placement this
year would have not contributed toward the team championship though.
Jon
On Monday, November 13, 2017 Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
Kevin,
The point of that rule was to level the playing field, so to speak, so that
a Junior WC could still defend their title at the next WC.? That was never
the case in the 3 prior WCs - the Junior category was added to the WCs in
2011.? Also, the Jury can't make a decision for everyone - they can only
impact the WC in progress.? Now, if a rule change is needed, or a
clarification needs to be made going forward, based on the decision of the
Jury at a WC (based on a protest), then this type of issue needs to be
raised at the F3A Sub-committee level, and once there is agreement there
then it should be voted and accepted at the Bureau level.? If a
clarification is made then it needs to be official and the wording needs to
be changed to address it.
BTW, I'm all for increasing the exposure of young people to the sport at the
highest level.
-Derek
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Young via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
Derek,?I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
basically as a two part statement with?
a)??The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held
b)??If he is not a member of the national team, his score will not be
considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be read
as the catch to the wording of the rule)
The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an official? Team
participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely lacking
youth!?
Kevin Young
From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf
of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
To: Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
?
That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote it.?
Here is the rule:
d)? The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held.? If he is not a member of the national team, his
score will not be considered in the team results.
The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior pilot
when the next World or Continental Championships are held.? Also, the first
sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental Championships
in that category" - the category is Junior.
I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don Ramsey" <donramsey at gmail.com> wrote:
??? Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is
over 18 but would not be part of the team.? So, could have 5 US entrants but
only 4 team members.
???
??? Don
???
???
??? -----Original Message-----
??? From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
??? Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
??? To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
??? Cc: MarkAtwood
??? Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
???
??? Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019.? Will he?
???
??? ?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org on behalf of
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
???
??????? He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr. Champion
(according to the rules)
???????
??????? Jas iP
???????
??????? > On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
??????? >
??????? > And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!!? Looks like Joseph is
ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
??????? >
??????? > Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com
??????? >
??????? > --------------------------------------------
??????? > On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
??????? >
??????? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
??????? > To: "Bill Harden" <flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
??????? > Cc: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
??????? > Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? > Onda
??????? > CPLR
??????? > Shulman
??????? > Jesky
??????? > Bruckman
??????? > Lassi (Finland)
??????? > Kaiser
??????? > Szczur
??????? > Glenn
??????? > Trumpp
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? > On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden
<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
??????? > wrote:
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? > #yiv2101667059
??????? > #yiv2101667059 --
??????? >
??????? >? _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
??????? >? _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
??????? > 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
??????? > #yiv2101667059?
??????? > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
??????? > li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
??????? > div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
??????? >??? {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
??????? > #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
??????? > span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlink
??????? >??? {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
??????? > #yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
??????? > span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlinkFollowed
??????? >??? {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
??????? > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
??????? > li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
??????? > div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
??????? >??? {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
??????? > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
??????? >??? {}
??????? > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
??????? >??? {color:windowtext;}
??????? > #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
??????? >??? {font-size:10.0pt;}
??????? >? _filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
??????? > #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
??????? >??? {}
??????? > #yiv2101667059
??????? > Would someone please tell
??????? > me the final result?? Thanks.
??????? >???
??????? >???
??????? >
??????? >???
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? >
??????? > _______________________________________________
??????? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
??????? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
??????? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
??????? > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
??????? >
??????? >
??????? > _______________________________________________
??????? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
??????? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
??????? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
??????? _______________________________________________
??????? NSRCA-discussion mailing list
??????? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
??????? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
???????
???
???
??? _______________________________________________
??? NSRCA-discussion mailing list
??? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
??? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
???
???
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 15:39:23 -0600
From: Scott McHarg <scmcharg at gmail.com>
To: Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com>, General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID:
<CALDH1UpgfXyVP3H+uLZF0ei=ZaJQ2-pO62QJSbU5=no1Hv4fAg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Does the Junior even qualify for team points? Maybe it's just the highest
3 including the Junior? It doesn't seem fair that some countries send a
Junior and other countries don't and that 4th counts. Even if Joseph's
score wasn't counted, we still would have won with AC's finish.
*Scott A. McHarg*
VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
Texas A&M University
PPL - ASEL
Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> In other words, if Joseph had elected to return this year as reigning
> Junior WC rather than as part of the team, we could have sent another
> Junior this year. Not sure if other Juniors entered the team trials at the
> 2016 Nats, but assuming some did, one of them could have gone. Joseph's
> placement this year would have not contributed toward the team
championship
> though.
>
> Jon
> ------------------------------
> On Monday, November 13, 2017 Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> Kevin,
>
> The point of that rule was to level the playing field, so to speak, so
> that a Junior WC could still defend their title at the next WC. That was
> never the case in the 3 prior WCs - the Junior category was added to the
> WCs in 2011. Also, the Jury can't make a decision for everyone - they can
> only impact the WC in progress. Now, if a rule change is needed, or a
> clarification needs to be made going forward, based on the decision of the
> Jury at a WC (based on a protest), then this type of issue needs to be
> raised at the F3A Sub-committee level, and once there is agreement there
> then it should be voted and accepted at the Bureau level. If a
> clarification is made then it needs to be official and the wording needs
to
> be changed to address it.
>
> BTW, I'm all for increasing the exposure of young people to the sport at
> the highest level.
>
> -Derek
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Young via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>> Derek, I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
>> basically as a two part statement with
>>
>>
>> a) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the
>> right (subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to
>> participate in the next World or Continental Championships in that
category
>> regardless of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and
>> provided that he will still be a junior pilot when the next World or
>> Continental Championships are held
>>
>>
>> b) *If he is not a member of the national team*, his score will not be
>> considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be
read
>> as the catch to the wording of the rule)
>>
>> The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an official Team
>> participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
>>
>> my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
>> exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely lacking
>> youth!
>>
>> Kevin Young
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> * From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>> behalf of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
>> *To:* Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>>
>> That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote it.
>> Here is the rule:
>>
>> d) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the
>> right (subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to
>> participate in the next World or Continental Championships in that
category
>> regardless of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and
>> provided that he will still be a junior pilot when the next World or
>> Continental Championships are held. If he is not a member of the
national
>> team, his score will not be considered in the team results.
>>
>> The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior pilot
>> when the next World or Continental Championships are held. Also, the
first
>> sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental
Championships
>> in that category" - the category is Junior.
>>
>> I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
>>
>>
>> ?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don Ramsey" <donramsey at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is
>> over 18 but would not be part of the team. So, could have 5 US entrants
>> but only 4 team members.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounc
>> es at lists.nsrca.org <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf
>> Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
>> To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
>> Cc: MarkAtwood
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>>
>> Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019. Will he?
>>
>> ?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
>> NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org on behalf of
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr.
>> Champion (according to the rules)
>>
>> Jas iP
>>
>> > On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!! Looks like Joseph
>> is ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
>> >
>> > Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------
>> > On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>> > To: "Bill Harden" <flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
>> > Cc: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.
>> org>
>> > Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Onda
>> > CPLR
>> > Shulman
>> > Jesky
>> > Bruckman
>> > Lassi (Finland)
>> > Kaiser
>> > Szczur
>> > Glenn
>> > Trumpp
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden <
>> flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > #yiv2101667059
>> > #yiv2101667059 --
>> >
>> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
>> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
>> > 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
>> > #yiv2101667059
>> > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
>> > li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
>> > div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
>> > {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
>> > span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlink
>> > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
>> > span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlinkFollowed
>> > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
>> > li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
>> > div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
>> > {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
>> > {}
>> > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
>> > {color:windowtext;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
>> > {font-size:10.0pt;}
>> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
>> > {}
>> > #yiv2101667059
>> > Would someone please tell
>> > me the final result? Thanks.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:39:59 -0800
From: Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com>
To: Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com>, General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID:
<CAGBB6kJxTuu+9XY88Uh0Kh16HZv_tTL7beqXtHb6ROJfB=_KAg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Only other junior I see from the results of last year's NATS F3A contest
here: https://www.patternscoring.com/3e2c8ca7-18db-4e41-ac48-89e9b1773790
is Brandon Sobolewski. I think our team selection process did the right
thing -- sending the best possible team to the WC to represent the USA,
regardless of "reigning" status or not. Reigning status probably saved the
team some money...
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> In other words, if Joseph had elected to return this year as reigning
> Junior WC rather than as part of the team, we could have sent another
> Junior this year. Not sure if other Juniors entered the team trials at the
> 2016 Nats, but assuming some did, one of them could have gone. Joseph's
> placement this year would have not contributed toward the team
championship
> though.
>
> Jon
> ------------------------------
> On Monday, November 13, 2017 Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> Kevin,
>
> The point of that rule was to level the playing field, so to speak, so
> that a Junior WC could still defend their title at the next WC. That was
> never the case in the 3 prior WCs - the Junior category was added to the
> WCs in 2011. Also, the Jury can't make a decision for everyone - they can
> only impact the WC in progress. Now, if a rule change is needed, or a
> clarification needs to be made going forward, based on the decision of the
> Jury at a WC (based on a protest), then this type of issue needs to be
> raised at the F3A Sub-committee level, and once there is agreement there
> then it should be voted and accepted at the Bureau level. If a
> clarification is made then it needs to be official and the wording needs
to
> be changed to address it.
>
> BTW, I'm all for increasing the exposure of young people to the sport at
> the highest level.
>
> -Derek
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Young via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>> Derek, I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
>> basically as a two part statement with
>>
>>
>> a) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the
>> right (subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to
>> participate in the next World or Continental Championships in that
category
>> regardless of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and
>> provided that he will still be a junior pilot when the next World or
>> Continental Championships are held
>>
>>
>> b) *If he is not a member of the national team*, his score will not be
>> considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be
read
>> as the catch to the wording of the rule)
>>
>> The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an official Team
>> participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
>>
>> my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
>> exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely lacking
>> youth!
>>
>> Kevin Young
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> * From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>> behalf of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
>> *To:* Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>>
>> That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote it.
>> Here is the rule:
>>
>> d) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the
>> right (subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to
>> participate in the next World or Continental Championships in that
category
>> regardless of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and
>> provided that he will still be a junior pilot when the next World or
>> Continental Championships are held. If he is not a member of the
national
>> team, his score will not be considered in the team results.
>>
>> The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior pilot
>> when the next World or Continental Championships are held. Also, the
first
>> sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental
Championships
>> in that category" - the category is Junior.
>>
>> I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
>>
>>
>> ?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don Ramsey" <donramsey at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is
>> over 18 but would not be part of the team. So, could have 5 US entrants
>> but only 4 team members.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounc
>> es at lists.nsrca.org <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf
>> Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
>> To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
>> Cc: MarkAtwood
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>>
>> Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019. Will he?
>>
>> ?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
>> NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org on behalf of
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr.
>> Champion (according to the rules)
>>
>> Jas iP
>>
>> > On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!! Looks like Joseph
>> is ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
>> >
>> > Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------
>> > On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>> > To: "Bill Harden" <flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
>> > Cc: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.
>> org>
>> > Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Onda
>> > CPLR
>> > Shulman
>> > Jesky
>> > Bruckman
>> > Lassi (Finland)
>> > Kaiser
>> > Szczur
>> > Glenn
>> > Trumpp
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden <
>> flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > #yiv2101667059
>> > #yiv2101667059 --
>> >
>> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
>> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
>> > 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
>> > #yiv2101667059
>> > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
>> > li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
>> > div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
>> > {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
>> > span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlink
>> > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
>> > span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlinkFollowed
>> > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
>> > li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
>> > div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
>> > {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
>> > {}
>> > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
>> > {color:windowtext;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
>> > {font-size:10.0pt;}
>> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
>> > #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
>> > {}
>> > #yiv2101667059
>> > Would someone please tell
>> > me the final result? Thanks.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
--
Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:41:01 -0800
From: Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com>
To: Scott McHarg <scmcharg at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID:
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The TOP 3 (regardless of junior or not) from each country counts.
Junior status applies only to the hunt for the junior trophy and the fact
that it allows a team to bring 4 instead of 3 if one is a junior.
Peter+
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> Does the Junior even qualify for team points? Maybe it's just the highest
> 3 including the Junior? It doesn't seem fair that some countries send a
> Junior and other countries don't and that 4th counts. Even if Joseph's
> score wasn't counted, we still would have won with AC's finish.
>
> *Scott A. McHarg*
> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
> Texas A&M University
> PPL - ASEL
> Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>> In other words, if Joseph had elected to return this year as reigning
>> Junior WC rather than as part of the team, we could have sent another
>> Junior this year. Not sure if other Juniors entered the team trials at
the
>> 2016 Nats, but assuming some did, one of them could have gone. Joseph's
>> placement this year would have not contributed toward the team
championship
>> though.
>>
>> Jon
>> ------------------------------
>> On Monday, November 13, 2017 Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> Kevin,
>>
>> The point of that rule was to level the playing field, so to speak, so
>> that a Junior WC could still defend their title at the next WC. That was
>> never the case in the 3 prior WCs - the Junior category was added to the
>> WCs in 2011. Also, the Jury can't make a decision for everyone - they
can
>> only impact the WC in progress. Now, if a rule change is needed, or a
>> clarification needs to be made going forward, based on the decision of
the
>> Jury at a WC (based on a protest), then this type of issue needs to be
>> raised at the F3A Sub-committee level, and once there is agreement there
>> then it should be voted and accepted at the Bureau level. If a
>> clarification is made then it needs to be official and the wording needs
to
>> be changed to address it.
>>
>> BTW, I'm all for increasing the exposure of young people to the sport at
>> the highest level.
>>
>> -Derek
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Young via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Derek, I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
>>> basically as a two part statement with
>>>
>>>
>>> a) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the
>>> right (subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to
>>> participate in the next World or Continental Championships in that
category
>>> regardless of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and
>>> provided that he will still be a junior pilot when the next World or
>>> Continental Championships are held
>>>
>>>
>>> b) *If he is not a member of the national team*, his score will not be
>>> considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be
read
>>> as the catch to the wording of the rule)
>>>
>>> The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an official Team
>>> participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
>>>
>>> my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
>>> exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely
lacking
>>> youth!
>>>
>>> Kevin Young
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> * From:* NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
>>> behalf of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
>>> *To:* Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
>>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>>>
>>> That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote
>>> it. Here is the rule:
>>>
>>> d) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the
>>> right (subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to
>>> participate in the next World or Continental Championships in that
category
>>> regardless of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and
>>> provided that he will still be a junior pilot when the next World or
>>> Continental Championships are held. If he is not a member of the
national
>>> team, his score will not be considered in the team results.
>>>
>>> The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior
>>> pilot when the next World or Continental Championships are held. Also,
the
>>> first sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental
>>> Championships in that category" - the category is Junior.
>>>
>>> I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
>>>
>>>
>>> ?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don Ramsey" <donramsey at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is
>>> over 18 but would not be part of the team. So, could have 5 US entrants
>>> but only 4 team members.
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounc
>>> es at lists.nsrca.org <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On
>>> Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
>>> To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
>>> Cc: MarkAtwood
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>>>
>>> Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019. Will he?
>>>
>>> ?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
>>> NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org on behalf
>>> of nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr.
>>> Champion (according to the rules)
>>>
>>> Jas iP
>>>
>>> > On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!! Looks like
>>> Joseph is ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
>>> >
>>> > Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com
>>> >
>>> > --------------------------------------------
>>> > On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>>> > To: "Bill Harden" <flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
>>> > Cc: "General pattern discussion" <
>>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> > Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Onda
>>> > CPLR
>>> > Shulman
>>> > Jesky
>>> > Bruckman
>>> > Lassi (Finland)
>>> > Kaiser
>>> > Szczur
>>> > Glenn
>>> > Trumpp
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden <
>>> flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > #yiv2101667059
>>> > #yiv2101667059 --
>>> >
>>> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
>>> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
>>> > 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
>>> > #yiv2101667059
>>> > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
>>> > li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
>>> > div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
>>> > {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
>>> > #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
>>> > span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlink
>>> > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
>>> > #yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
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>>> > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
>>> > li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
>>> > div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
>>> > {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
>>> > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
>>> > {}
>>> > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
>>> > {color:windowtext;}
>>> > #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
>>> > {font-size:10.0pt;}
>>> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
>>> > #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
>>> > {}
>>> > #yiv2101667059
>>> > Would someone please tell
>>> > me the final result? Thanks.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
--
Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:46:59 +0000
From: Joe Lachowski <jlachow at hotmail.com>
To: Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID:
<CO1PR19MB06938B3515F66268209C831EBB2B0 at CO1PR19MB0693.namprd19.prod.outlook.
com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Guy, as far as Joseph goes, and I think Don will agree, his focus in the
future will be a college education.
________________________________
From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf
of Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 1:41 PM
To: Scott McHarg; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
The TOP 3 (regardless of junior or not) from each country counts.
Junior status applies only to the hunt for the junior trophy and the fact
that it allows a team to bring 4 instead of 3 if one is a junior.
Peter+
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
Does the Junior even qualify for team points? Maybe it's just the highest 3
including the Junior? It doesn't seem fair that some countries send a
Junior and other countries don't and that 4th counts. Even if Joseph's
score wasn't counted, we still would have won with AC's finish.
Scott A. McHarg
VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
Texas A&M University
PPL - ASEL
Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
In other words, if Joseph had elected to return this year as reigning Junior
WC rather than as part of the team, we could have sent another Junior this
year. Not sure if other Juniors entered the team trials at the 2016 Nats,
but assuming some did, one of them could have gone. Joseph's placement this
year would have not contributed toward the team championship though.
Jon
________________________________
On Monday, November 13, 2017 Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
Kevin,
The point of that rule was to level the playing field, so to speak, so that
a Junior WC could still defend their title at the next WC. That was never
the case in the 3 prior WCs - the Junior category was added to the WCs in
2011. Also, the Jury can't make a decision for everyone - they can only
impact the WC in progress. Now, if a rule change is needed, or a
clarification needs to be made going forward, based on the decision of the
Jury at a WC (based on a protest), then this type of issue needs to be
raised at the F3A Sub-committee level, and once there is agreement there
then it should be voted and accepted at the Bureau level. If a
clarification is made then it needs to be official and the wording needs to
be changed to address it.
BTW, I'm all for increasing the exposure of young people to the sport at the
highest level.
-Derek
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Young via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
Derek, I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
basically as a two part statement with
a) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held
b) If he is not a member of the national team, his score will not be
considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be read
as the catch to the wording of the rule)
The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an official Team
participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely lacking
youth!
Kevin Young
________________________________
From: NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at li
sts.nsrca.org>> on behalf of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
To: Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote it.
Here is the rule:
d) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held. If he is not a member of the national team, his
score will not be considered in the team results.
The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior pilot
when the next World or Continental Championships are held. Also, the first
sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental Championships
in that category" - the category is Junior.
I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don Ramsey"
<donramsey at gmail.com<mailto:donramsey at gmail.com>> wrote:
Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is
over 18 but would not be part of the team. So, could have 5 US entrants but
only 4 team members.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
Cc: MarkAtwood
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019. Will he?
?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
NSRCA-discussion"
<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at li
sts.nsrca.org> on behalf of
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr. Champion
(according to the rules)
Jas iP
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
>
> And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!! Looks like Joseph is
ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
>
> Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com<mailto:getterflash at yahoo.com>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
> To: "Bill Harden"
<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net<mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>>
> Cc: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
>
>
>
> Onda
> CPLR
> Shulman
> Jesky
> Bruckman
> Lassi (Finland)
> Kaiser
> Szczur
> Glenn
> Trumpp
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden
<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net<mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> #yiv2101667059
> #yiv2101667059 --
>
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
> 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
> #yiv2101667059
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> li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
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> #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
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> #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
> {}
> #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
> {color:windowtext;}
> #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
> {font-size:10.0pt;}
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
> #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
> {}
> #yiv2101667059
> Would someone please tell
> me the final result? Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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--
Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
[http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg][https://goo
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:49:42 -0500
From: <davel322 at comcast.net>
To: "'Jon Lowe'" <jonlowe at aol.com>, "'General pattern discussion'"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID: <276001d35cc9$557c0790$007416b0$@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Joseph was the top Jr from the US Team trials, and therefore, part of the US
Team, and eligible to be counted towards the Team result. For countries
that can field 4 man Teams, the top 3 pilots count towards the Team result.
An individual attending the WC as defending Jr/Sr Champion and NOT part of a
country Team does not count towards the Team result. It is, theoretically
then possible to have 6 people from one country fly in the WC??3 man team
plus 1 jr member, a defending WC, and a defending Jr WC??but only the 3 plus
1 are eligible to count for the Team result.
Regards,
Dave
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:35 PM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
In other words, if Joseph had elected to return this year as reigning Junior
WC rather than as part of the team, we could have sent another Junior this
year. Not sure if other Juniors entered the team trials at the 2016 Nats,
but assuming some did, one of them could have gone. Joseph's placement this
year would have not contributed toward the team championship though.
Jon
_____
On Monday, November 13, 2017 Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> wrote:
Kevin,
The point of that rule was to level the playing field, so to speak, so that
a Junior WC could still defend their title at the next WC. That was never
the case in the 3 prior WCs - the Junior category was added to the WCs in
2011. Also, the Jury can't make a decision for everyone - they can only
impact the WC in progress. Now, if a rule change is needed, or a
clarification needs to be made going forward, based on the decision of the
Jury at a WC (based on a protest), then this type of issue needs to be
raised at the F3A Sub-committee level, and once there is agreement there
then it should be voted and accepted at the Bureau level. If a
clarification is made then it needs to be official and the wording needs to
be changed to address it.
BTW, I'm all for increasing the exposure of young people to the sport at the
highest level.
-Derek
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Young via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> wrote:
Derek, I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
basically as a two part statement with
a) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held
b) If he is not a member of the national team, his score will not be
considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be read
as the catch to the wording of the rule)
The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an official Team
participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely lacking
youth!
Kevin Young
_____
From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> > on behalf of Derek
Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
To: Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote it.
Here is the rule:
d) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held. If he is not a member of the national team, his
score will not be considered in the team results.
The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior pilot
when the next World or Continental Championships are held. Also, the first
sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental Championships
in that category" - the category is Junior.
I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don Ramsey" <donramsey at gmail.com
<mailto:donramsey at gmail.com> > wrote:
Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is
over 18 but would not be part of the team. So, could have 5 US entrants but
only 4 team members.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
Cc: MarkAtwood
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019. Will he?
?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
wrote:
He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr. Champion
(according to the rules)
Jas iP
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> wrote:
>
> And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!! Looks like Joseph is
ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
>
> Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com <mailto:getterflash at yahoo.com>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
> To: "Bill Harden" <flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net
<mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net> >
> Cc: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
> Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
>
>
>
> Onda
> CPLR
> Shulman
> Jesky
> Bruckman
> Lassi (Finland)
> Kaiser
> Szczur
> Glenn
> Trumpp
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden <flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net
<mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net> >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> #yiv2101667059
> #yiv2101667059 --
>
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
> 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
> #yiv2101667059
> #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
> {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
> #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
> span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlink
> {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
> #yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
> span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlinkFollowed
> {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
> #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
> {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
> #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
> {}
> #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
> {color:windowtext;}
> #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
> {font-size:10.0pt;}
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
> #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
> {}
> #yiv2101667059
> Would someone please tell
> me the final result? Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:16:57 +0000
From: Matthew Finley <rcfin02 at msn.com>
To: "davel322 at comcast.net" <davel322 at comcast.net>, General pattern
discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>, 'Jon Lowe'
<jonlowe at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID:
<DM5PR1301MB2012E5B62DFBDC549CB5DEB0B72B0 at DM5PR1301MB2012.namprd13.prod.outl
ook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
So what exactly does a spin entry look like to be scored a 10. A break,
rotation of the CG, etc ? Now how about snaps ? Judging a true 45 at the end
of the box ? What is a flute or Piano supposed to look like ? lol
Matthew E Finley
Q.C.I Technical Assistant
248-794-8487 mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: davel322--- via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: 11/13/17 4:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: 'Jon Lowe' <jonlowe at aol.com>, 'General pattern discussion'
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Joseph was the top Jr from the US Team trials, and therefore, part of the US
Team, and eligible to be counted towards the Team result. For countries
that can field 4 man Teams, the top 3 pilots count towards the Team result.
An individual attending the WC as defending Jr/Sr Champion and NOT part of a
country Team does not count towards the Team result. It is, theoretically
then possible to have 6 people from one country fly in the WC??3 man team
plus 1 jr member, a defending WC, and a defending Jr WC??but only the 3 plus
1 are eligible to count for the Team result.
Regards,
Dave
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:35 PM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
In other words, if Joseph had elected to return this year as reigning Junior
WC rather than as part of the team, we could have sent another Junior this
year. Not sure if other Juniors entered the team trials at the 2016 Nats,
but assuming some did, one of them could have gone. Joseph's placement this
year would have not contributed toward the team championship though.
Jon
________________________________
On Monday, November 13, 2017 Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
Kevin,
The point of that rule was to level the playing field, so to speak, so that
a Junior WC could still defend their title at the next WC. That was never
the case in the 3 prior WCs - the Junior category was added to the WCs in
2011. Also, the Jury can't make a decision for everyone - they can only
impact the WC in progress. Now, if a rule change is needed, or a
clarification needs to be made going forward, based on the decision of the
Jury at a WC (based on a protest), then this type of issue needs to be
raised at the F3A Sub-committee level, and once there is agreement there
then it should be voted and accepted at the Bureau level. If a
clarification is made then it needs to be official and the wording needs to
be changed to address it.
BTW, I'm all for increasing the exposure of young people to the sport at the
highest level.
-Derek
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Young via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
Derek, I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
basically as a two part statement with
a) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held
b) If he is not a member of the national team, his score will not be
considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be read
as the catch to the wording of the rule)
The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an official Team
participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely lacking
youth!
Kevin Young
________________________________
From: NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at li
sts.nsrca.org>> on behalf of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
To: Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote it.
Here is the rule:
d) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held. If he is not a member of the national team, his
score will not be considered in the team results.
The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior pilot
when the next World or Continental Championships are held. Also, the first
sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental Championships
in that category" - the category is Junior.
I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don Ramsey"
<donramsey at gmail.com<mailto:donramsey at gmail.com>> wrote:
Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is
over 18 but would not be part of the team. So, could have 5 US entrants but
only 4 team members.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
Cc: MarkAtwood
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019. Will he?
?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
NSRCA-discussion"
<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at li
sts.nsrca.org> on behalf of
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr. Champion
(according to the rules)
Jas iP
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
>
> And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!! Looks like Joseph is
ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
>
> Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com<mailto:getterflash at yahoo.com>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
> To: "Bill Harden"
<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net<mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>>
> Cc: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
>
>
>
> Onda
> CPLR
> Shulman
> Jesky
> Bruckman
> Lassi (Finland)
> Kaiser
> Szczur
> Glenn
> Trumpp
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden
<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net<mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> #yiv2101667059
> #yiv2101667059 --
>
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
> 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
> #yiv2101667059
> #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
> {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
> #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
> span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlink
> {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
> #yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
> span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlinkFollowed
> {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
> #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
> {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
> #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
> {}
> #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
> {color:windowtext;}
> #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
> {font-size:10.0pt;}
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
> #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
> {}
> #yiv2101667059
> Would someone please tell
> me the final result? Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
-------------- next part --------------
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f275/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:42:21 +0000
From: "Robert L. Beaubien" <rob at koolsoft.com>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID:
<9A5848CCBBDF544699E85744202C854D582F8105 at EXCHANGE01.koolsoftware.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Instigator! ?
* Robert Beaubien
* Drone Plastics
*
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Matthew Finley via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 3:17 PM
To: davel322 at comcast.net; General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; 'Jon Lowe' <jonlowe at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
So what exactly does a spin entry look like to be scored a 10. A break,
rotation of the CG, etc ? Now how about snaps ? Judging a true 45 at the end
of the box ? What is a flute or Piano supposed to look like ? lol
Matthew E Finley
Q.C.I Technical Assistant
248-794-8487 mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: davel322--- via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Date: 11/13/17 4:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: 'Jon Lowe' <jonlowe at aol.com<mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>>, 'General pattern
discussion'
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Joseph was the top Jr from the US Team trials, and therefore, part of the US
Team, and eligible to be counted towards the Team result. For countries
that can field 4 man Teams, the top 3 pilots count towards the Team result.
An individual attending the WC as defending Jr/Sr Champion and NOT part of a
country Team does not count towards the Team result. It is, theoretically
then possible to have 6 people from one country fly in the WC??3 man team
plus 1 jr member, a defending WC, and a defending Jr WC??but only the 3 plus
1 are eligible to count for the Team result.
Regards,
Dave
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:35 PM
To:
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
In other words, if Joseph had elected to return this year as reigning Junior
WC rather than as part of the team, we could have sent another Junior this
year. Not sure if other Juniors entered the team trials at the 2016 Nats,
but assuming some did, one of them could have gone. Joseph's placement this
year would have not contributed toward the team championship though.
Jon
________________________________
On Monday, November 13, 2017 Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
Kevin,
The point of that rule was to level the playing field, so to speak, so that
a Junior WC could still defend their title at the next WC. That was never
the case in the 3 prior WCs - the Junior category was added to the WCs in
2011. Also, the Jury can't make a decision for everyone - they can only
impact the WC in progress. Now, if a rule change is needed, or a
clarification needs to be made going forward, based on the decision of the
Jury at a WC (based on a protest), then this type of issue needs to be
raised at the F3A Sub-committee level, and once there is agreement there
then it should be voted and accepted at the Bureau level. If a
clarification is made then it needs to be official and the wording needs to
be changed to address it.
BTW, I'm all for increasing the exposure of young people to the sport at the
highest level.
-Derek
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Young via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
Derek, I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
basically as a two part statement with
a) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held
b) If he is not a member of the national team, his score will not be
considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be read
as the catch to the wording of the rule)
The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an official Team
participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely lacking
youth!
Kevin Young
________________________________
From: NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at li
sts.nsrca.org>> on behalf of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
To: Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote it.
Here is the rule:
d) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held. If he is not a member of the national team, his
score will not be considered in the team results.
The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior pilot
when the next World or Continental Championships are held. Also, the first
sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental Championships
in that category" - the category is Junior.
I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don Ramsey"
<donramsey at gmail.com<mailto:donramsey at gmail.com>> wrote:
Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is
over 18 but would not be part of the team. So, could have 5 US entrants but
only 4 team members.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
Cc: MarkAtwood
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019. Will he?
?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
NSRCA-discussion"
<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at li
sts.nsrca.org> on behalf of
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr. Champion
(according to the rules)
Jas iP
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
>
> And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!! Looks like Joseph is
ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
>
> Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com<mailto:getterflash at yahoo.com>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
> To: "Bill Harden"
<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net<mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>>
> Cc: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
>
>
>
> Onda
> CPLR
> Shulman
> Jesky
> Bruckman
> Lassi (Finland)
> Kaiser
> Szczur
> Glenn
> Trumpp
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden
<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net<mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> #yiv2101667059
> #yiv2101667059 --
>
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
> 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
> #yiv2101667059
> #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
> {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
> #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
> span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlink
> {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
> #yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
> span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlinkFollowed
> {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
> #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
> {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
> #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
> {}
> #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
> {color:windowtext;}
> #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
> {font-size:10.0pt;}
> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
> #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
> {}
> #yiv2101667059
> Would someone please tell
> me the final result? Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:44:28 -0500
From: Jas S <justanotherflyr at gmail.com>
To: Mike Mueller <mups53 at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID: <AFA1C344-5615-4E40-B8AF-C92BF04D4C3E at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I'll let you break it to him lol. He said he talked to and read it as he
returns.
Jas iP
> On Nov 13, 2017, at 12:30 PM, Mike Mueller via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> I could be wrong but I thought I asked this before and this was Joseph's
last eligible WC as a Junior.
> Mike
>
>> President of F3AUnlimited.com, Gator-RC.com, and Caiman Distribution
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>>
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units.
>>
>>
>>
>> F3AUnlimited.com
>>
>> 800 591 2875
>>
>> Gator-RC.com
>>
>> 800 380 9373
>>
>> Caimandist.com
>>
>> 800 803 3658
>>
>> TopRCModel-USA.com
>>
>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> That's not the way the rule is written - he only gets to return to defend
his title provided he will still be a junior in 2019.
>>
>> ?On 11/13/17, 8:40 AM, "Jas S" <justanotherflyr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Returning as an open/senior (like regular WC invite)
>>
>> Jas iP
>>
>> > On Nov 13, 2017, at 11:38 AM, Derek Koopowitz
<derekkoopowitz at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019. Will he?
>> >
>> > ?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org on behalf of
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr.
Champion (according to the rules)
>> >
>> > Jas iP
>> >
>> >> On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!! Looks like Joseph is
ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
>> >>
>> >> Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com
>> >>
>> >> --------------------------------------------
>> >> On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>> >> To: "Bill Harden" <flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
>> >> Cc: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> >> Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Onda
>> >> CPLR
>> >> Shulman
>> >> Jesky
>> >> Bruckman
>> >> Lassi (Finland)
>> >> Kaiser
>> >> Szczur
>> >> Glenn
>> >> Trumpp
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden
<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> #yiv2101667059
>> >> #yiv2101667059 --
>> >>
>> >> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
>> >> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
>> >> 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
>> >> #yiv2101667059
>> >> #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
>> >> li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
>> >> div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
>> >> {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
>> >> #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
>> >> span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlink
>> >> {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
>> >> #yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
>> >> span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlinkFollowed
>> >> {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
>> >> #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
>> >> li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
>> >> div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
>> >> {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
>> >> #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
>> >> {}
>> >> #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
>> >> {color:windowtext;}
>> >> #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
>> >> {font-size:10.0pt;}
>> >> _filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
>> >> #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
>> >> {}
>> >> #yiv2101667059
>> >> Would someone please tell
>> >> me the final result? Thanks.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:50:07 -0500
From: Scott <nelson_jett at comcast.net>
To: "\"=?utf-8?Q?davel322=40comcast.net?=\"" <davel322 at comcast.net>,
'Jon Lowe' <jonlowe at aol.com>, Matthew Finley <rcfin02 at msn.com>,
General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID: <7b5f4bdf-c8de-48fb-9c4a-c1e84ed08123 at Lewiss-iPhone>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Matt "Big Spoon " Finley enters the room and begins stirring...
Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App
------ Original Message ------
From: Matthew Finley via NSRCA-discussion
To: davel322 at comcast.net, General pattern discussion, 'Jon Lowe'
Sent: November 13, 2017 at 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
So what exactly does a spin entry look like to be scored a 10. A break,
rotation of the CG, etc ? Now how about snaps ? Judging a true 45 at the end
of the box ? What is a flute or Piano supposed to look like ?lol
Matthew E Finley
Q.C.I Technical Assistant
248-794-8487 mobile
-------- Original message --------
From: davel322--- via NSRCA-discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: 11/13/17 4:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: 'Jon Lowe'<jonlowe at aol.com>, 'General pattern
discussion'<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Joseph was the top Jr from the US Team trials, and therefore, part of the US
Team, and eligible to be counted towards the Team result.For countries that
can field 4 man Teams, the top 3 pilots count towards the Team result.An
individual attending the WC as defending Jr/Sr Champion and NOT part of a
country Team does not count towards the Team result.It is, theoretically
then possible to have 6 people from one country fly in the WC??3 man team
plus 1 jr member, a defending WC, and a defending Jr WC??but only the 3 plus
1 are eligible to count for the Team result.
Regards,
Dave
From:NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On
Behalf OfJon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion
Sent:Monday, November 13, 2017 4:35 PM
To:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject:Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
In other words, if Joseph had elected to return this year as reigning Junior
WC rather than as part of the team, we could have sent another Junior this
year. Not sure if other Juniors entered the team trials at the 2016 Nats,
but assuming some did, one of them could have gone. Joseph's placement this
year would have not contributed toward the team championship though.
Jon
On Monday, November 13, 2017 Derek Koopowitz via
NSRCA-discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:nsrca-discussion at li
sts.nsrca.org)>wrote:
Kevin,
The point of that rule was to level the playing field, so to speak, so that
a Junior WC could still defend their title at the next WC.That was never the
case in the 3 prior WCs - the Junior category was added to the WCs in
2011.Also, the Jury can't make a decision for everyone - they can only
impact the WC in progress.Now, if a rule change is needed, or a
clarification needs to be made going forward, based on the decision of the
Jury at a WC (based on a protest), then this type of issue needs to be
raised at the F3A Sub-committee level, and once there is agreement there
then it should be voted and accepted at the Bureau level.If a clarification
is made then it needs to be official and the wording needs to be changed to
address it.
BTW, I'm all for increasing the exposure of young people to the sport at the
highest level.
-Derek
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Young via
NSRCA-discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:nsrca-discussion at li
sts.nsrca.org)>wrote:
>
> Derek,I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
basically as a two part statement with
>
>
>
>
>
> a)The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held
>
>
>
>
>
> b)If he is not a member of the national team, his score will not be
considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be read
as the catch to the wording of the rule)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an officialTeam
participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely lacking
youth!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kevin Young
>
>
>
>
From:NSRCA-discussion<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:nsrca-
discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org)>on behalf of Derek Koopowitz via
NSRCA-discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:nsrca-discussion at li
sts.nsrca.org)>
> Sent:Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
> To:Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
> Subject:Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote
it.Here is the rule:
>
> d)The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held.If he is not a member of the national team, his score
will not be considered in the team results.
>
> The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior pilot
when the next World or Continental Championships are held.Also, the first
sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental Championships
in that category" - the category is Junior.
>
> I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
>
>
> ?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don
Ramsey"<donramsey at gmail.com(mailto:donramsey at gmail.com)>wrote:
>
> Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is over
18 but would not be part of the team.So, could have 5 US entrants but only 4
team members.
>
> Don
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
> To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
> Cc: MarkAtwood
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>
> Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019.Will he?
>
> ?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
NSRCA-discussion"<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:nsrca-disc
ussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org)on behalf
ofnsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org)>
wrote:
>
> He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr. Champion
(according to the rules)
>
> Jas iP
>
> >On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via
NSRCA-discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:nsrca-discussion at li
sts.nsrca.org)>wrote:
> >
> >And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!!Looks like Joseph is ready
for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
> >
> >Bob Kanegetterflash at yahoo.com(mailto:getterflash at yahoo.com)
> >
> >--------------------------------------------
> >On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via
NSRCA-discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:nsrca-discussion at li
sts.nsrca.org)>wrote:
> >
> >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
> >To: "Bill
Harden"<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net(mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net)>
> >Cc: "General pattern
discussion"<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.n
srca.org)>
> >Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >Onda
> >CPLR
> >Shulman
> >Jesky
> >Bruckman
> >Lassi (Finland)
> >Kaiser
> >Szczur
> >Glenn
> >Trumpp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill
Harden<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net(mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net)>
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >#yiv2101667059
> >#yiv2101667059 --
> >
> >_filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
> >_filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
> >5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
> >#yiv2101667059
> >#yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> >li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> >div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
> >{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
> >#yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
> >span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlink
> >{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
> >#yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
> >span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlinkFollowed
> >{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
> >#yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> >li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> >div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
> >{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
> >#yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
> >{}
> >#yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
> >{color:windowtext;}
> >#yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
> >{font-size:10.0pt;}
> >_filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
> >#yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
> >{}
> >#yiv2101667059
> >Would someone please tell
> >me the final result?Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org)
> >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org)
> >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org)
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org(mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org)
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 20:31:30 -0600
From: Ronald Van Putte <vanputter at gmail.com>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
Message-ID: <B87891CA-B417-4A39-8F97-0B6E6D82EF04 at cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
However, Matt "Big Spoon ? Finley seems to have forgotten to mention the
Downwind Turn.
Ron
> On Nov 13, 2017, at 6:50 PM, Scott via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Matt "Big Spoon " Finley enters the room and begins stirring...
>
> Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From: Matthew Finley via NSRCA-discussion
> To: davel322 at comcast.net <mailto:davel322 at comcast.net>, General pattern
discussion, 'Jon Lowe'
> Sent: November 13, 2017 at 5:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>
> So what exactly does a spin entry look like to be scored a 10. A break,
rotation of the CG, etc ? Now how about snaps ? Judging a true 45 at the end
of the box ? What is a flute or Piano supposed to look like ? lol
>
>
>
> Matthew E Finley
> Q.C.I Technical Assistant
> 248-794-8487 mobile
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: davel322--- via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> Date: 11/13/17 4:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: 'Jon Lowe' <jonlowe at aol.com <mailto:jonlowe at aol.com>>, 'General
pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>
> Joseph was the top Jr from the US Team trials, and therefore, part of the
US Team, and eligible to be counted towards the Team result. For countries
that can field 4 man Teams, the top 3 pilots count towards the Team result.
An individual attending the WC as defending Jr/Sr Champion and NOT part of a
country Team does not count towards the Team result. It is, theoretically
then possible to have 6 people from one country fly in the WC??3 man team
plus 1 jr member, a defending WC, and a defending Jr WC??but only the 3 plus
1 are eligible to count for the Team result.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
>
> From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf Of Jon Lowe via
NSRCA-discussion
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:35 PM
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>
> In other words, if Joseph had elected to return this year as reigning
Junior WC rather than as part of the team, we could have sent another Junior
this year. Not sure if other Juniors entered the team trials at the 2016
Nats, but assuming some did, one of them could have gone. Joseph's placement
this year would have not contributed toward the team championship though.
>
> Jon
>
> On Monday, November 13, 2017 Derek Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
>
> Kevin,
>
> The point of that rule was to level the playing field, so to speak, so
that a Junior WC could still defend their title at the next WC. That was
never the case in the 3 prior WCs - the Junior category was added to the WCs
in 2011. Also, the Jury can't make a decision for everyone - they can only
impact the WC in progress. Now, if a rule change is needed, or a
clarification needs to be made going forward, based on the decision of the
Jury at a WC (based on a protest), then this type of issue needs to be
raised at the F3A Sub-committee level, and once there is agreement there
then it should be voted and accepted at the Bureau level. If a
clarification is made then it needs to be official and the wording needs to
be changed to address it.
>
> BTW, I'm all for increasing the exposure of young people to the sport at
the highest level.
>
> -Derek
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Kevin Young via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
>
> Derek, I know this may not be your intent but how I read the rule is
basically as a two part statement with
>
>
> a) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held
>
>
> b) If he is not a member of the national team, his score will not be
considered in the team results. (I think the underlined section can be read
as the catch to the wording of the rule)
>
> The b portion allowing him to compete but not as an official Team
participant like QuiQue did in Portugal.
>
> my other thought is why on earth you would want to limit a young persons
exposure to competition in an industry and sport that is severely lacking
youth!
>
> Kevin Young
>
> From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>> on behalf of Derek
Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 1:45 PM
> To: Don Ramsey; 'General pattern discussion'
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>
> That is not the intent of the rule and I should know because I wrote it.
Here is the rule:
>
> d) The reigning Junior World or Junior Continental Champion has the right
(subject to the approval of his National Airsports Control) to participate
in the next World or Continental Championships in that category regardless
of whether he qualifies for the national team or not, and provided that he
will still be a junior pilot when the next World or Continental
Championships are held. If he is not a member of the national team, his
score will not be considered in the team results.
>
> The key words here are "and provided that he will still be a junior pilot
when the next World or Continental Championships are held. Also, the first
sentence states "participate in the next World or Continental Championships
in that category" - the category is Junior.
>
> I don't know where the ambiguity comes in.
>
>
> ?On 11/13/17, 10:22 AM, "Don Ramsey" <donramsey at gmail.com
<mailto:donramsey at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Derek, according to the jury he can return as an individual if he is
over 18 but would not be part of the team. So, could have 5 US entrants but
only 4 team members.
>
> Don
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] On Behalf Of Derek
Koopowitz via NSRCA-discussion
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 AM
> To: Jas S; NSRCA List; Bob Kane
> Cc: MarkAtwood
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
>
> Provided he will be 18 or younger in 2019. Will he?
>
> ?On 11/12/17, 5:50 PM, "NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Jas S via
NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
>
> He already gets a free pass to Italy for being reigning Jr.
Champion (according to the rules)
>
> Jas iP
>
> > On Nov 12, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
> >
> > And an amazing team effort I must say !!!!!! Looks like Joseph
is ready for the 2019 team without the Junior status.
> >
> > Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com <mailto:getterflash at yahoo.com>
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Sun, 11/12/17, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A World Result
> > To: "Bill Harden" <flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net
<mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>>
> > Cc: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
> > Date: Sunday, November 12, 2017, 3:19 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Onda
> > CPLR
> > Shulman
> > Jesky
> > Bruckman
> > Lassi (Finland)
> > Kaiser
> > Szczur
> > Glenn
> > Trumpp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 12, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Bill Harden
<flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net <mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > #yiv2101667059
> > #yiv2101667059 --
> >
> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15
> > 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
> > #yiv2101667059
> > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> > li.yiv2101667059MsoNormal, #yiv2101667059
> > div.yiv2101667059MsoNormal
> > {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;}
> > #yiv2101667059 a:link, #yiv2101667059
> > span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlink
> > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
> > #yiv2101667059 a:visited, #yiv2101667059
> > span.yiv2101667059MsoHyperlinkFollowed
> > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
> > #yiv2101667059 p.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> > li.yiv2101667059msonormal0, #yiv2101667059
> > div.yiv2101667059msonormal0
> > {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:11.0pt;}
> > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059apple-style-span
> > {}
> > #yiv2101667059 span.yiv2101667059EmailStyle20
> > {color:windowtext;}
> > #yiv2101667059 .yiv2101667059MsoChpDefault
> > {font-size:10.0pt;}
> > _filtered #yiv2101667059 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
> > #yiv2101667059 div.yiv2101667059WordSection1
> > {}
> > #yiv2101667059
> > Would someone please tell
> > me the final result? Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
<http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion>
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
<http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
<http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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<mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
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<http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 12:10:08 -0700
From: Jeff Worsham <jeffryworsham at gmail.com>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Zero Judges at WC's
Message-ID: <B2292E21-01CF-4E9D-9093-01F9707DA5FB at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
What would it take for FAI to require a minimum # of zero judges at future
WC?s? IE: at least two designated zero judges required for every semi?s and
finals round. With the increase in complexity of maneuvers in F and unknown
sequences, sounds like the judging load may be exceeding what even the most
experienced of judges can keep up with at a WC. On top of increased judging
load, add poor visibility, poor conditions, etc and the chance for error
goes up even more.
Jeff
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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 19:12:15 +0000 (UTC)
From: Charles Hochhalter <cahochhalter at yahoo.com>
To: "nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Zero Judges at WC's
Message-ID: <1402173332.1899921.1510686735461 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The cost to add zero judges would be around 4 -6 grand each unless you
pulled from contestants... which probably? wouldnt happen.?
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 1:10 PM, Jeff Worsham via
NSRCA-discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote: What would it
take for FAI to require a minimum # of zero judges at future WC?s? ?IE: at
least two designated zero judges required for every semi?s and finals
round.? With the increase in complexity of maneuvers in F and unknown
sequences, sounds like the judging load may be exceeding what even the most
experienced of judges can keep up with at a WC. ?On top of increased judging
load, add poor visibility, poor conditions, etc and the chance for error
goes up even more.??Jeff_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 19:13:19 +0000
From: "Vogel, Peter" <Peter_Vogel at intuit.com>
To: Jeff Worsham <jeffryworsham at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Zero Judges at WC's
Message-ID:
<DM5PR02MB3273CABAAE1656DBCB68994DF0280 at DM5PR02MB3273.namprd02.prod.outlook.
com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Money! Judges at WC are compensated and have their Travel paid. What you
describe would mean 2-8 more judges at a WC.
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf
of Jeff Worsham via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 11:10:08 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Zero Judges at WC's
What would it take for FAI to require a minimum # of zero judges at future
WC?s? IE: at least two designated zero judges required for every semi?s and
finals round. With the increase in complexity of maneuvers in F and unknown
sequences, sounds like the judging load may be exceeding what even the most
experienced of judges can keep up with at a WC. On top of increased judging
load, add poor visibility, poor conditions, etc and the chance for error
goes up even more.
Jeff
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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 12:20:52 -0700
From: Jeff Worsham <jeffryworsham at gmail.com>
To: "cahochhalter at yahoo.com" <cahochhalter at yahoo.com>, General pattern
discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Zero Judges at WC's
Message-ID: <1181A304-C4FE-449F-93EB-C4DFC2CBBA69 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Obviously I don?t know squat about the whole process, but was just
wondering-? if there?s a 10 judge panel, why can?t 2 of them be zero
judges.? I understand if running 2 lines, 5 judges per line, there would
need to be 4 more judges paid for.? But aren?t the final rounds flown on one
line only with all 10 judges?? If so, why can?t 2 of them be zero judges?? ?
From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf
of Charles Hochhalter via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Reply-To: "cahochhalter at yahoo.com" <cahochhalter at yahoo.com>, General pattern
discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 12:12 PM
To: "nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Zero Judges at WC's
The cost to add zero judges would be around 4 -6 grand each unless you
pulled from contestants... which probably wouldnt happen.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 1:10 PM, Jeff Worsham via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
What would it take for FAI to require a minimum # of zero judges at future
WC?s? IE: at least two designated zero judges required for every semi?s and
finals round. With the increase in complexity of maneuvers in F and unknown
sequences, sounds like the judging load may be exceeding what even the most
experienced of judges can keep up with at a WC. On top of increased judging
load, add poor visibility, poor conditions, etc and the chance for error
goes up even more.
Jeff
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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