[NSRCA-discussion] LONG conversation with Joe Walker on NATs, sequence proposals, and other NSRCA issues.
Larry Diamond
ldiamond at diamondrc.com
Sun Jun 18 15:38:37 AKDT 2017
Thanks John...
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Date: 6/18/17 5:16 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Larry Diamond via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LONG conversation with Joe Walker on NATs, sequence proposals, and other NSRCA issues.
I can't find it on the AMA website either. I suspect it is in some
specific AMA document on how the Nats are run.
As I recall from my time as treasurer, there is one CD for the
Nats. That's the whole Nats, not the Pattern Nats. Each
sub-category such as RC Aerobatics, has an Event Director, who
reports to the Contest Director.
Therefore in terms of Pattern, the Event Director is in charge of
the "event" and is responsible to the CD, not the NSRCA board. This
is Al Glenn. The NSRCA does, however, defray a small part of the
costs incurred by the ED.
The AMA docs I can find all refer to local/regional contests. The
Nats is a separate animal as described above.
John
On 6/18/2017 3:52 PM, Larry Diamond via
NSRCA-discussion wrote:
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Please
help me understand where the term ED comes from. Since I
can’t find it on the AMA website, I assume that it must be
an NSRCA term documented in our Procedures, By-Laws, or
something.
AMA
Sanction Application:
Document 302, Revision 2.14.2017
AMA
Definitions:
CD
– Contest Director:
For all rule book sanction events. Must be identified on the
AMA Sanction Application. Cannot be changed by anyone other
than by the AMA or through resignation.
Event
Manager:
For all Non-Rule Book Sanctioned events.
The
AMA does not seem to identify an “Event Director” in the
Sanction Application or on the AMA website. So where does it
come from?
The
AMA clearly states if you have an AMA rule-book event, you
must have a CD, end of story. Nowhere on the Sanction
Application is it stipulated for an ED. There are 15 times
Director is in the form, all of which is the CD. In
reviewing the Sanction Application, there are no previsions
for a Co-Contest Director.
Who
completed and signed the Sanction Application? If it is Al
Glenn, then he is legally bound to the Sanction and our AMA
insurance coverage depends on it. If it somebody else, then
they are. If the NSRCA wishes to appoint an Event Director,
it is my opinion that it becomes a supporting role to the
CD. The CD is overall responsible for the contest to the AMA
exclusively and to adhere to all AMA regulations and rules.
I believe if there is a conflict between the NSRCA and the
AMA, the AMA documentation prevails.
Any
attempt to circumvent the AMA sanction by appointing
somebody over a registered CD, becomes a disaster. I’m not
an attorney and somebody who is should help clarify, as
there becomes a risk of liability in the event of property
damage or personal injury. Even a new out of school attorney
wouldn’t have much of a problem with that case. At the top
of the liability ring would be the NSRCA, and the AMA for
allowing such a disaster to occur.
On
another note, the NSCRA BoD either individually or
collectively has disenfranchised at least two NSRCA members
for doing the right thing. Both have served the NSRCA with
Honor and dignity. To them, I personally apologize for the
way the NSRCA has treated you this past few weeks. I thank
you for your courage, humility, and dedication.
Joe
Walker,
this is on you. You are our President and the leader of the
BoD. From my point of view, taking a path of ignorance does
show the reason for this fiasco, but more importantly it
does not show ownership of the situation at hand. You
accepted the role, you own it. Please take immediate
control.
For
me, the website chatter is noise. Has no relevance to the
situation other than to deflect responsibility of the NSRCA
Leadership. Doesn’t sit well with me. Most likely because of
my Military background.
Personally,
I believe in you as well as the others on the BoD. I believe
you will right this ship (sorry, retired Navy guy here). You
have zero time to get it done.
Regarding
the NATs, The registered CD is in charge and we [NSRCA] must
let the CD take control. It may be better to use the same
contest format as last year as we are out of time to
implement changes without disenfranchising members who
either will or are planning to attend.
Sorry
for the rant, but it is my .02
Best
Regards,
Larry
Diamond
From:
NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Walker via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 2:08 PM
To: Frackowiak Tony
<frackowiak at sbcglobal.net>; General pattern
discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Cc: John Gayer
<west.engineering at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] LONG conversation
with Joe Walker on NATs, sequence proposals, and other
NSRCA issues.
Good afternoon all,
I appreciate the points being brought up
and will certainly work hard to ensure that all guidelines
and requirements are met. I must admit, it’s been difficult
searching for information myself, let alone folks who are
seeking guidance that are not directly involved in making
decisions that affect all of us. This fact alone has been a
core driver in my decision to become involved in the
organization in more direct way.
Now, that said, we need to find a path
forward that works for the organization as a whole, and of
course the entirety of the membership. There are
innumerable points that we can all get mired in, debate and
get irritated about, but my primary interest is gathering
all legacy information, previous comments, new input, etc.,
and match the task of clearly documenting and organizing
that information into a useful, and user friendly format.
This serves not only my personal needs to know where to
look, but also serves the membership by having all
information and resources at our fingertips.
This effort has started with an overhaul
of the website. Through no individual’s actions, the
previous life of the website became a repository of bits and
pieces of these resources, rather than a lean and clear
source of information. Many of these resources are quite
useful and had been meticulously created by NSRCA members
over the years. Unfortunately, some of documents conflict
each other and some are silent on issues that need direction
or clarity. Some procedural requirements are missing all
together. Derek Koopowitz has generously donated countless
hours of his personal time and financial resources to
develop and maintain the web presence. His efforts should
be commended! Peter Vogel has spent just as much time
developing and refining content for the website. What we
really need now is a few folks with an eye for detail and
are tuned in to procedures and rules to assist in vetting
the information that we have posted and help create a more
comprehensive resource that has reliable information and
links to other regulatory agencies that affect our
procedures. This is a giant task that would go to serve us
all well in the end.
You may ask why I am talking about the
website in relation to the sequences or the format of the
Nats topics du jour. Well, it’s all related at the core of
the issues at hand, information. Many of the points that
have been brought up in these discussion forums are
completely reasonable points. We need to get to a place
where we are able to distance the points that are being made
from the distracting emotions. For those that have read my
articles in the K-Factor, this theme has been clear and
consistent. I’ve also directly reached out and asked for
folks to email me personally (via the K-Factor articles)
with any legacy information that they feel is missing from
the site or the decisions they see that are being made. We
have an opportunity to make course corrections pretty easily
in most cases to adjust the path of a project, task, or
procedure, but this requires assistance from the entire
membership. It especially requires the long term members
who have served in these previous capacities to contribute.
I am always seeking passionate volunteers
to devote their skills and energy towards making the
processes better. I commit to keeping the NSRCA on a forward
trajectory by doing my best to ensure that decisions are
followed through with and tasks are completed. Clearly
things will be missed, and I’m certainly not claiming
perfection. I am seeking assistance though. Are you
willing to contribute to a solution to help keep the NSRCA
organized, accessible and responsive to the needs and
desires of the membership? If so, please reach out to me
directly and I’m happy to work together to forge a plan that
benefits all of us. I appreciate the extra effort that Jon
Lowe made to speak with me directly and help turn a
situation he was unhappy about into a productive strategy to
make it better. I’m available (mostly…), and I invite folks
to give me a ring. Let’s talk it out and develop a solution
together. “The Board” is not a secret society of folks
looking to destroy what we have, it’s a group of folks who
have volunteered their personal time to help make our
weekend fun with toy airplanes more enjoyable by alleviating
the general membership of daunting task of organization.
Please reach out to your DVP’s and help them communicate
concerns and ideas that can be formally presented to the
Board for discussion and approval.
Best,
Joe Walker,
NSRCA President
On Jun 18, 2017, at 12:47 PM,
Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
+1. Thank you John. Just as a
side note. I was on the Sequence Committee for the
previous 2 cycles. I was not informed in any way
that I would not still be on the Sequence Committee.
I was also very surprised that the BOD appointed a
Chairperson who had never participated in the
process before. In the past, I believe, the Chair
always came from the existing Committee.
Tony Frackowiak
On Jun 18, 2017, at 9:21
AM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
Jon,
Relative to the scheduling of the new
sequences, there is a document that
addresses the timeline for the sequence
committee. This document is not on the
website, at least not in the logical place
under sequence development. Here is the
section about the schedule. This document
was generated in 2012 to separate the
functions of the committee from the sequence
development guide which gets some updates
every cycle.
4 Suggested
Sequence Submittal Process
The following is the recommended timeline
for the development and submission of new
sequences. Sequence
development should always start in two
years prior to when the sequence is to be
replaced. For example, if the
Masters sequence (2 year lifecycle) is to
be replaced in 2015 (X) then work on the
development of a new
sequence should start in 2013 (X – 2).
What follows is a timeline showing the
activity (task) and the month the
activity should start:
TASK TIMELINE
Assign and approve Committee Chairperson
October - year X – 2
Committee Chairperson recruits Committee
Membership October – year X - 2
BoD approves Committee Membership November
– year X - 2
Establish development schedule December –
year X - 2
Review design criteria/receive BoD
approval for changes December – year X - 2
Develop preliminary changes/sequences and
flight test January through March – year X
- 1
Publish for public comment on NSRCA
website/K-Factor April through May – year
X - 1
Finalize changes/sequence selection based
on comments June through August – year X -
1
Submit proposed changes/sequences to BoD
for approval October– year X - 1
Publish approved sequences on NSRCA
website/K-Factor November – year X -1
New sequences in use January – year X
There is
no question about the requirement for
publishing the proposed sequences. It was
supposed to happen the beginning of April.
From your email it appears that neither
you or Joe were aware of the publication
requirement or the dates involved. I know
you addressed the lack of continuity
between boards in your ppost but I believe
the Committee had this document and should
have shared it with the board. Certainly
all past Committee members had a copy.
There is another section in this document
that addresses the makeup of the committee
and the oversight function of the board.
2.3 Membership
There should be at least six Committee
members excluding the Chairperson and
should, if possible, contain at
least one member who is currently
competing in each of the AMA classes.
There should be representation from
as many NSRCA districts as possible on the
committee. Non pilots and non NSRCA
members may be
committee members, provided that their
qualifications meet the approval of the
Chairperson and the BoD. The
Committee shall contain at least one
current member of the BoD. All members of
the Committee are voting
members.
2.5.1 Standard Committee Procedures
• The NSRCA President shall be the primary
point of contact for communications
between the
Committee Chairperson and the Board on all
matters of directive nature, and for
deliverables from
the Committee.
• The Chairperson will select members for
his/her committee and propose a team to
the BoD.
• The BoD will review the Committee for
national (District) balance and
representation across
Intermediate through Masters Classes and,
if necessary, provide recommendations on
the
Committee members to the Chairperson. The
BoD will then vote to accept or reject the
proposed
Committee members.
• The Chairperson and Committee members
agree to work as a team and reach a
consensus on the
Committee’s proposals. They agree to
support the Committee’s proposal and not
submit separate
proposals on these sequences to the BoD.
• The Committee shall perform their tasks
within the schedule of milestones as
defined by the BoD.
• The Committee will produce proposed
changes to sequences based on input from
the membership
and their experience. The sequences will
be published in the K Factor and on the
NSRCA website
for review.
• The Committee will coordinate with the
Rules/Judging Committee Chairperson to
produce the
final proposals, with supporting
rationale, to be approved by the BoD.
• Sequences for Sportsman, Intermediate,
Advanced and Masters Class will be
developed for
presentation to and review by the
precision aerobatics community on the
NSRCA website. New
sequences may not necessarily be presented
for all classes.
I have cherry-picked the pertinent
sections from the document but have also
attached the complete document. It's
pretty clear that the directives contained
here were not followed. The current
committee makeup does not conform to the
document in terms of consensus,
geographical distribution, number of
members or the requirement for a current
board member.
On another subject, It is my understanding
from when I was on the board that the
NSRCA board proposes the ED to the AMA.
Once that is done, the ED responsibility
is to the AMA not the NSRCA. At that
point, the NSRCA no longer has any
authority over the ED. If that is still
the case, how is the board
creating Co-EDs or changing the ED? And
directing change to the finals from the
originally published setup when this is
solely up to the ED? It is very late to be
running surveys and reevaluating
procedures with the start barely a month
away. Even the survey itself seems to be
problematic. I've attended four of the
last six Nats, year before last in Masters
but didn't qualify for the survey?
Also we are finding out that the F3A
finals have been changed back to the
normal format. We find this out because
Jon had a long conversation with Joe and
posted on the list? I can't find anything
on the website about the Co-CD change, the
survey, the change to the F3A final or
what's going on with the sequence
committee, committee members or committee
members that have resigned and been
replaced. The Masters finals sequence that
was developed without establishing any
sequence guidelines( at least not that
were published) or buyin from the board
is a case in point of the lack of
transparency of the current committee.
John Gayer
On 6/18/2017 6:25 AM,
Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
Joe
and I had a LONG conversation Saturday
about the NATS, sequences, and NSRCA in
general. This email is what I heard based
on that conversation and he knows I'm
writing this. I've known Joe for a number
of years, and we are good friends, so we
had a very frank discussion. I don't think
I swallowed any koolade, but you be the
judge.
First
though, I am as guilty as anyone in
reacting to stuff on this discussion list,
without picking up the phone or calling
people directly. No excuse, but modern
media at work. I should know, as a past
president of NSRCA, how hard it can be to
get to ground truth sometimes, and to make
sure accurate info is distributed. For
that, I apologize.
One
thing I didn't realize, was that until
yesterday, Joe was not on this discussion
list. He's primarily used the NSRCA
Facebook page. He's catching up now with
all of the discussions here over the past
couple of weeks.
You've
probably seen by now the letter on Mike
Harrison and Al Glenn being co-EDs for the
NATS. Joe realizes that decision and
clarification had not been made either to
them, the NSRCA BoD, or the membership,
and it wasn't documented on the NSRCA
website. Joe and the BoD are working on
remedies to make sure oversights like that
don't happen again. The BoD meeting was a
couple of nights ago, and it was clarified
then, and put out to the membership.
The
changes to the format of the NATS was also
discussed. The final format is the EDs
call, as long as it is by the rule book.
But as I reminded Joe, the finals for
Masters was eliminated a couple of years
ago to great hue and cry when it was
unnecessary to use the matrix system, and
was reinstated the following year. So
tread carefully. He pointed out that this
year's NATS is trying something that
hasn't been done in years, and that some
changes happen as a result. This should
have been better communicated to the
membership. The survey that went out
yesterday was to affected entrants to last
year's and this year's NATS. However, if
the changes to the finals are affecting
your decision on whether or not to enter
the NATS, I urge you to contact Joe. His
email and phone number are in the back of
any KFactor. He did say that so far the
survey is about 80% for the shortened
Masters finals. I don't know though how
many responses he's received.
Incidentally, FAI has reverted to a 2-F,
2- unknown finals format, according to
Joe.
He
realizes that NSRCA and the membership is
in a time crunch for vetting and getting
approval for the new AMA sequences for
next year. The BoD first saw them a few
hours before we did, and it became clear
during the BoD meeting that they needed a
separate meeting to discuss and vet them.
Significant discussion centered around the
proposal for a Master's class finals. That
isn't contemplated in the Sequence guide,
and there hasn't been any decision on
putting that before the membership or
not. According to Joe, neither he, nor
other members of the BoD knew that a
finals sequence would be proposed, total
surprise. Obviously, to get feedback to
make necessary changes, get approval from
the membership, final approval by the BoD
and to publish all of the new sequences by
years end is going to be tough. Joe
clearly understands that challenge. In
addition, he said he recalls no discussion
one way or the other during the BoD
meeting about distributing what they got
from the sequence committee to the general
membership. I told him I felt that the
sooner they get feedback the better, and
he agreed. Constructive feedback to Joe or
your District VP is encouraged. I know
there have been some personal issues that
resulted from the distribution of the
sequences, and Joe and others are working
to correct those problems. I hope they can
be resolved also. Those involved will know
what I'm talking about.
It
still is not clear to me, and I think Joe,
why the sequences we're developed in such
secrecy. This definitely didn't help the
current controversy. I told Joe that
drafts should have been out months ago for
comment. He agreed that this needs to be
the process going forward, and the
procedure guide for developing the
sequences may need clarification for
timelines and transparency.
One
of the things I faced, and Joe is facing,
is loss of corporate knowledge anytime
there is new leadership in charge. This is
especially true of volunteer organizations
with no central office. I have some things
I think can help, and I will make sure Joe
gets them. If you have old files or other
information you think might benefit him or
the BoD, please contact him.
I
emphasized to Joe the need for fast
communication on hot topics, even to say
they're working on it, and will get back
to us. He gets it, and I think being on
this list he will get and can react to the
hot issues of the moment.
Do
I agree with everything Joe said and the
BoDs actions? Of course not; I'd be
surprised if I did. Pattern fliers are, if
nothing else, opinionated SOB's. Can they
do better, especially with communication?
Surely, and I think Joe gets that. And I'm
going to try to improve my communication
with Joe and my DVP, Larry Kauffman,
before I express displeasure here.
Jon
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