[NSRCA-discussion] Why bother

Thu Jul 20 07:31:05 AKDT 2017

Amen Brother.
 Flying pattern is after all "FUN". At least for me, it is.
 Mike Mueller

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On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 7:23 PM, Larry Diamond via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

> + ∞
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Larry Diamond
>
>
>
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Andrew Jesky via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2017 6:55 PM
> *To:* Vogel, Peter <Peter_Vogel at intuit.com>; General pattern discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Why bother
>
>
>
> Alright guys we get the point you both are trying to make and the
> relevance to our sport. I will say that if someone who is on the outside
> just getting started in pattern saw the way the list was for the last
> month, what if any reason would make them want to stay in this facet of our
> hobby, you know the thing we do for fun and enjoyment?
>
> I think folks need to go out fly some flights (whichever class/sequence
> you want) and remember why we do this. For the enjoyment of flying a model
> airplane and precise as possible.
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Vogel, Peter via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Only emotion I see here is from you.
>
>
>
> The fake news is *not* from the minutes, it is from your **interpretation**
> of the minutes which you have chosen to take as a fact and are attempting
> to represent to the list as a fact.  You are trying to equate the fact that
> I represented the voice of D7 in a discussion (which I did) with the idea
> you made up in your head that I somehow voted twice, which I most certainly
> did not.
>
>
>
> Peter+
>
>
>
> *From: *NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
> behalf of Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Reply-To: *Frackowiak Tony <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net>, General pattern
> discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Date: *Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 4:39 PM
> *To: *Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Why bother
>
>
>
> Peter,
>
>
>
> If it's fake news then it's fake right from the NSRCA's own Minutes. I
> didn't make stuff up. I am not saying anything other then what the Minutes
> represents.
>
>
>
> Once again you can't take the criticism for what it is meant but can only
> react emotionally.
>
>
>
> Again, why bother?
>
>
>
> Tony Frackowiak
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2017, at 4:26 PM, Peter Vogel wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Once again, trying to create rumors of malfeasance.  Fake News!
>
>
>
> I *obviously* get only ONE vote on the board, as the nationally elected
> treasurer.  Since Dan Lipton was out of country and unable to attend the
> meeting, and since I attend virtually every contest in D7, and I felt it
> was important to have D7 represented in the discussions re: the NATS and
> the sequences, I voiced what I had heard from the membership.
>
>
>
> A motion was made and the quorum of the officers who were in attendance
> voted (one vote each, since I seem to need to be explicit about everything)
> and the motion passed unanimously.
>
>
>
> As it happens I *am* going to the NATS and *do* have an opinion on how
> they are run, so I did render my views on that as well as what I had heard
> from other members of D7 as I had brought up several issues with a wide
> swath of D7 pilots.  As it happens, several of those I spoke to ARE going
> to the NATS this year...   Also, as I recall, there was a dust-up on this
> very list about people NOT getting to render their opinions on the NATS
> just because they weren't going this year or hadn't gone last year -- we
> corrected that (to a degree given the time-critical nature) and just
> yesterday there was discussion about how many people were going to get
> invited to the survey (at the moment the e-mail list alone stands at
> approximately 3616, of which just south of 400 are NSRCA members) so
> perhaps you could start to at least be consistent in what you criticize us
> for?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter+
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 3:59 PM, Frackowiak Tony <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> Yes, I do know that. I have been an officer of my club for the last 12
> years, so I understand minutes.
>
>
>
> You just said that my specific concerns were discussed. If so, the
> specific concerns of a member should have been noted in the minutes.
>
>
>
> I also got a lot of sidestepping when I asked about the minutes from the
> previous BOD meeting. Here is what was posted,
>
>
>
> *D7 Dan Lipton (Peter Vogel representing D7) *
>
> - Certain members of the district have expressed the most opposition to
> recent actions by the board concerning the NATS and the proposed sequences;
> it is an odd dynamic because most D7 members do not attend the NATS
>
> - There is interest in the proposed P and F Masters sequences; the intent
> of having two sequences has been misunderstood; the additional F pattern
> provides an option for the CD at local contests; the F could also be used
> at the NATS
>
>
>
> I asked both my DVP and the NSRCA President how you, as the Treasurer,
> could also sit in and represent D7. They said you weren't, just voicing
> your opinion. But the Minutes say that you were representing D7, so I'm
> sorry to say, that is what you were doing. A Motion was passed and the vote
> was recorded as unanimous. So you voted as both the Treasurer and the D7 VP?
>
>
>
> Now I could have a whole discussion on the views you expressed as being
> from D7. Like if you're not going to the Nats why should you express an
> opinion about how they are run. Another subject. But if you want conspiracy
> theories and low opinions to die down, let's be transparent.
>
>
>
> Tony Frackowiak
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2017, at 3:41 PM, Peter Vogel wrote:
>
>
>
>
> As you well know, the minutes do not record every word that was spoken.
> Your views on the sequence, along with the views of many others were
> discussed in both the 6/22 and 7/12 meetings.  We did not mention names.
> But at BOTH meetings the feedback on the list and off-list feedback
> received by the DVPs was discussed in-depth.  The action item coming out of
> 7/12 was for me to produce the survey that I'm working on (hope to have it
> out tonight, waiting for a few more approvals) so that we can capture the
> feedback more completely.
>
>
>
> Peter+
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Frackowiak Tony <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
>
>
> The Minutes, which are supposed to represent what was covered in the
> meeting, do not reflect what you just said. Where in the minutes is there
> any mention of the discussion you refer to? I sort of feel that if my DVP
> says he will forward my concerns to the Board, if he in fact did, that it
> would be so noted in the Minutes. Since it isn't I can only assume that my
> concerns were not forwarded.
>
>
>
> As a member my only source of information regarding the events of a BOD
> meeting is the Minutes. It, along with the Book of Motions, is the official
> record. Am I wrong here?
>
>
>
> Tony Frackowiak
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Peter Vogel wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Tony,
>
>
>
> We all discussed your specific concerns as you had not been shy about
> sharing them on this list.  Your DVP was speaking for the rest with whom he
> had spoken or received e-mail, people who don't have the time to be highly
> vocal on this mailing list.
>
>
>
>
>
> Peter+
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at listsnsrca.org <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>
> Just thought I'd relay a recent experience to point out why many are
> feeling that their voices aren't heard in the NSRCA. Jon Lowe posted about
> the recent BOD meeting and to make sure to get their opinions in to their
> DVP's. So I did. I sent this to my DVP.
>
>
>
> I am letting you know that I am completely against the proposed Masters
> Sequence submitted to the membership for comments.
>
>
>
> He replied with this,
>
>
>
> I will forward that along.
>
>
>
> The Minutes posted to the website say that this was what was expressed by
> my DVP,
>
>
>
> Proposed sequences has positive feedback from most
>
>
>
> Pretty easy to see why most no longer bother.
>
>
>
> Tony Frackowiak
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>
> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>
> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>
> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>
> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>
> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>
> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>
> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>
> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>
> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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