[NSRCA-discussion] Why bother

Wed Jul 19 16:23:13 AKDT 2017

+ ∞

Best Regards,

Larry Diamond

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Jesky via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 6:55 PM
To: Vogel, Peter <Peter_Vogel at intuit.com>; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Why bother

Alright guys we get the point you both are trying to make and the relevance to our sport. I will say that if someone who is on the outside just getting started in pattern saw the way the list was for the last month, what if any reason would make them want to stay in this facet of our hobby, you know the thing we do for fun and enjoyment? 

I think folks need to go out fly some flights (whichever class/sequence you want) and remember why we do this. For the enjoyment of flying a model airplane and precise as possible. 

Andrew 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 19, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Vogel, Peter via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > wrote:

Only emotion I see here is from you.

The fake news is not from the minutes, it is from your *interpretation* of the minutes which you have chosen to take as a fact and are attempting to represent to the list as a fact.  You are trying to equate the fact that I represented the voice of D7 in a discussion (which I did) with the idea you made up in your head that I somehow voted twice, which I most certainly did not.  

Peter+

From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> > on behalf of Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
Reply-To: Frackowiak Tony <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net <mailto:frackowiak at sbcglobal.net> >, General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 4:39 PM
To: Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com <mailto:vogel.peter at gmail.com> >
Cc: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Why bother

Peter, 

If it's fake news then it's fake right from the NSRCA's own Minutes. I didn't make stuff up. I am not saying anything other then what the Minutes represents.

Once again you can't take the criticism for what it is meant but can only react emotionally.

Again, why bother?

Tony Frackowiak

On Jul 19, 2017, at 4:26 PM, Peter Vogel wrote:

Once again, trying to create rumors of malfeasance.  Fake News!   

I *obviously* get only ONE vote on the board, as the nationally elected treasurer.  Since Dan Lipton was out of country and unable to attend the meeting, and since I attend virtually every contest in D7, and I felt it was important to have D7 represented in the discussions re: the NATS and the sequences, I voiced what I had heard from the membership.

A motion was made and the quorum of the officers who were in attendance voted (one vote each, since I seem to need to be explicit about everything) and the motion passed unanimously.

As it happens I *am* going to the NATS and *do* have an opinion on how they are run, so I did render my views on that as well as what I had heard from other members of D7 as I had brought up several issues with a wide swath of D7 pilots.  As it happens, several of those I spoke to ARE going to the NATS this year...   Also, as I recall, there was a dust-up on this very list about people NOT getting to render their opinions on the NATS just because they weren't going this year or hadn't gone last year -- we corrected that (to a degree given the time-critical nature) and just yesterday there was discussion about how many people were going to get invited to the survey (at the moment the e-mail list alone stands at approximately 3616, of which just south of 400 are NSRCA members) so perhaps you could start to at least be consistent in what you criticize us for?

Thanks,

Peter+

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 3:59 PM, Frackowiak Tony <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net <mailto:frackowiak at sbcglobal.net> > wrote:

Yes, I do know that. I have been an officer of my club for the last 12 years, so I understand minutes. 

You just said that my specific concerns were discussed. If so, the specific concerns of a member should have been noted in the minutes. 

I also got a lot of sidestepping when I asked about the minutes from the previous BOD meeting. Here is what was posted,

D7 Dan Lipton (Peter Vogel representing D7) 

- Certain members of the district have expressed the most opposition to recent actions by the board concerning the NATS and the proposed sequences; it is an odd dynamic because most D7 members do not attend the NATS 

- There is interest in the proposed P and F Masters sequences; the intent of having two sequences has been misunderstood; the additional F pattern provides an option for the CD at local contests; the F could also be used at the NATS 

I asked both my DVP and the NSRCA President how you, as the Treasurer, could also sit in and represent D7. They said you weren't, just voicing your opinion. But the Minutes say that you were representing D7, so I'm sorry to say, that is what you were doing. A Motion was passed and the vote was recorded as unanimous. So you voted as both the Treasurer and the D7 VP?

Now I could have a whole discussion on the views you expressed as being from D7. Like if you're not going to the Nats why should you express an opinion about how they are run. Another subject. But if you want conspiracy theories and low opinions to die down, let's be transparent. 

Tony Frackowiak

On Jul 19, 2017, at 3:41 PM, Peter Vogel wrote:

As you well know, the minutes do not record every word that was spoken.  Your views on the sequence, along with the views of many others were discussed in both the 6/22 and 7/12 meetings.  We did not mention names.  But at BOTH meetings the feedback on the list and off-list feedback received by the DVPs was discussed in-depth.  The action item coming out of 7/12 was for me to produce the survey that I'm working on (hope to have it out tonight, waiting for a few more approvals) so that we can capture the feedback more completely.

Peter+

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Frackowiak Tony <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net <mailto:frackowiak at sbcglobal.net> > wrote:

Peter, 

The Minutes, which are supposed to represent what was covered in the meeting, do not reflect what you just said. Where in the minutes is there any mention of the discussion you refer to? I sort of feel that if my DVP says he will forward my concerns to the Board, if he in fact did, that it would be so noted in the Minutes. Since it isn't I can only assume that my concerns were not forwarded.

As a member my only source of information regarding the events of a BOD meeting is the Minutes. It, along with the Book of Motions, is the official record. Am I wrong here?

Tony Frackowiak

On Jul 19, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Peter Vogel wrote:

Tony, 

We all discussed your specific concerns as you had not been shy about sharing them on this list.  Your DVP was speaking for the rest with whom he had spoken or received e-mail, people who don't have the time to be highly vocal on this mailing list.

Peter+

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at listsnsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > wrote:

Just thought I'd relay a recent experience to point out why many are feeling that their voices aren't heard in the NSRCA. Jon Lowe posted about the recent BOD meeting and to make sure to get their opinions in to their DVP's. So I did. I sent this to my DVP. 

I am letting you know that I am completely against the proposed Masters Sequence submitted to the membership for comments.

He replied with this,

I will forward that along.

The Minutes posted to the website say that this was what was expressed by my DVP,

Proposed sequences has positive feedback from most

Pretty easy to see why most no longer bother.

Tony Frackowiak

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-- 

Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training

Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark

Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X

Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)

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-- 

Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training

Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark

Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X

Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)

  <http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg>   <https://googledrive.com/host/0B4LOPeyGAgOJUVJmU1dJMVl6WWc/AcademyModelAeronauticsLogo.png> 

-- 

Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training

Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark

Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X

Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)

  <http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg>   <https://googledrivecom/host/0B4LOPeyGAgOJUVJmU1dJMVl6WWc/AcademyModelAeronauticsLogo.png> 

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