[NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA Leadership / Masters different sequence
John Gayer
west.engineering at comcast.net
Mon Jul 10 06:04:29 AKDT 2017
Stuart,
I took the liberty of putting your sequence in a new spreadsheet.
Some of the exit attitudes didn't work as described like maneuver 11
needs to be a full roll to exit inverted and it is a K2 according to the
guide. Also the spin is a K3 according to the guide.
I have some other ideas but I thought starting with a clean layout might
be a good idea. I support what you are trying to do here.
John
DESCRIPTION K Exit Notes
1 1
2 U Double Immelman with knife edge flight 5 upright inside 1/2
loop then outside 1/2 loop
3 TA 1/2 Square loop on corner with 2of4 roll 2 upright
4 D Pyramid Loop with 2of4, full roll, 2of4 4 upright Push to 135
down……
5 TA 1/2 Square loop with Snap 3 inverted
6 U Six-sided Loop on corner, 1/2 Rolls in leg 1,3 and 4,6 4 inverted
7 TA Humpty with options: Push, push, push, 1/2 roll up and a full
roll on the downline. Option 1/4 roll up 3/4 roll down 3 inverted
8 D 4of8-pt roll, 4of8 opposite 5 inverted I would consider this a
K4, inverted 8-pt is K4
9 TA Stall turn with 1/2 rolls reversed goingup and 1/2 roll down 3
upright
10 U Outside Avalanche with 1/2 rolls 4 upright
11 TA Half reverse Cuban Eight with a full roll on the 45 2 inverted
Not inverted here and its not a 3, added 1/2 roll
12 D Knife edge flight with 1 1/4 rolls in and out 4 upright rolls
same direction
13 TA Top Hat, 3/4 roll up and down 2 upright
14 U Figure Z with two rolls on 45 4 upright
15 TA 2turnspin 3 inverted two turn spin is still a K3, not 2
16 D Reverse cuban eight with full rolls 4 inverted
17 TA Stall turn with 1/2 roll down 2 upright
18 U Loop with roll over top 180 5 upright
19 U Landing 1 upright
61
On 7/9/2017 7:02 PM, Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
>
> Pyramid (triangle from the top base at the bottom) From the top of
> the box as you approach center push 3/8 loop to an inverted 45 degree
> down line 2/4 on this leg to upright. Push 3/8 to inverted horizontal
> flight, full roll on this line from inverted push back 3/8 loop back
> towards top center. 2/4 on this line to inverted again, push 3/8 loop
> back to upright flight
>
> You are not going to like my answer but as far as the K factor it is
> similar to the current P-17 triangle which has a 4 pt roll on the top
> leg and still just a K4
>
> Since you are going to want to make the pyramid large so the 1/2
> square down can be big enough not to fear the snap the maneuver
> preceding the pyramid the half square on corner needs to be large so
> the asymmetrical roll (one leg only) should be fairly easy to do.
> Also going up hill so you have more time for the 2/4.
>
> 6 sided loop K factor being a 5. Can't disagree with you but I can
> also make the case for a K4. There are no K5 six sided loops in the
> current guidelines. Nothing to compare to say it is as hard or
> easier. I think that since it just has 1/2 rolls in it is easier than
> the P-17 six sided FAI is flying now. Theirs is a K4.
>
> I think I agree with what someone said about K factors needing an
> overhaul. 'Perhaps going to an IMAC type system to assign K factors
> is the right direction to go. This will take a bit of work and can't
> happen before these sequences need to be done:) But it is something to
> think about for the future.
>
> As far as the number of spins I am good with 2 or 3 or 1.5 or 2.5 with
> an added 1/2 roll. You are happy at 3 Jon recommends 2 which just
> confirms that not everyone will be happy with the path we chose.
>
> I think right now there are 3 clear K5 maneuvers. Is the pyramid, six
> sided and or 1 1/4 roll to knife edge a K5 maneuver. You can make a
> case with support to go either way.
>
> Let me try to get this to format better. If anyone else has comments
> on this version or if you support the original Masters proposal from
> the NSRCA website please let us know.
>
> Masters proposal
> Maneuver KF Notes:
> 1 Takeoff (U) 1
> 2 Double Immelman with knife edge flight (U) 5 Pull to 1/2 loop,
> immediate 1/4 roll, knife edge flight, 1/4 roll same direction,
> immediate push to 1/2 outside loop, immediate 1/4 roll, knife edge
> flight, 1/4 roll same direction to level upright exit
> 3
>
> 1/2 square loop on corner with 2/4 pt rolls in 2nd leg (TA) 2
> 4 Pyramid loop, 2/4, Full roll, 2/4 (D) 4 Push back to 45 deg down
> line, 2/4 pt roll, push to level flight, Full rollfrom inverted, push
> back to to 45 up line, 2/4 pt roll, push to level upright exit
> 5 1/2 square outside loop, full snap (+ or -) in vert down line, exit
> inverted (TA) 3 (inverted exit)
> 6 Six sided loop on corner with 1/2 rolls in legs 1, 3, 4, 6, exit
> inverted (U) 4 Push at center no rolls on vertical legs.(inverted exit)
> 7 Humpty with options: Push, push, push, 1/2 roll up and a full roll
> on the downline, exit inverted.Option 1/4 roll up 3/4 roll down, exit
> inverted (TA) 3 (inverted exit)
> 8 4/8 opposite from inverted, exit inverted (D) 5 (inverted exit)
> 9 Stall turn with 1/2 rolls reversed goingup and 1/2 roll down, exit
> upright (TA) 3
> 10 Avalanche with 1/2 roll going in and out 4 1/2 roll to inverted,
> perform an outside loop with a snap at the top, complete the loop and
> perform a 1/2 roll to exit upright.
> 11 Half reverse Cuban Eight with a1/2 roll roll on the 45 (TA) 3
> exit inverted
> 12 Knife edge flight with 1 1/4 rolls in and out. (D) 4
> 13 Top Hat, 3/4 roll up and down exit upright (TA) 2
> 14 Figure Z with 2 consecutive rolls(U) 4
> 15 2 turn spin exit inverted (TA) 2
> 16 Reverse cuban eight with full rolls from inverted(D) 4
> 17 Stall turn with half rolldown (TA) 2
> 18 Loop with integrated roll in top 180 (U)* 5
> 19 Landing (U) 1
> Total K-factor 61 Goal is 60 to 63
> Minimum of 2, max of 3 cross box maneuvers
>
> Minimum of 2, max of 3 downwind rolling
> maneuvers
>
> Minimum of 2, max of 4 K5 maneuvers
>
> Minimum of 2, max of 3 Snap Rolls
>
> Minimum of 1, max of 2 Spins
>
> Minimum 2 stall turns, 4 max
>
>
> On 7/9/2017 5:30 PM, Frackowiak Tony wrote:
>> Stuart,
>>
>> Your description of the Pyramid loop still doesn't seem to make sense
>> to me. Am I wrong?
>>
>> I like the Avalanche.
>>
>> I don't think you've incorporated some of the other changes and as
>> such you still have too many, in my opinion, K5 maneuvers. The Six
>> Sided loop as proposed should be a K5. I feel the 1 1/4 roll KE is a
>> K5. As I mentioned earlier, you could change the Pyramid loop to all
>> 1/2 rolls and make it a K4, it's in the Guide that way.
>>
>> My suggestion, #3 should be a 1/2 Square Loop w/1/2rolls both legs.
>> #4 should be Pyramid Loop starting from inverted, 1/2 rolls each leg,
>> exit upright.
>>
>> I would personally keep the 3 turn spin. I wouldn't go less then 2
>> with the spin. But you might consider making the Reverse Cuban 8 a
>> regular Cuban 8 just to give more distance between the spin and the
>> 8. That won't affect the entry in to the Stall Turn.
>>
>>
>> My suggested sequence. Maneuvers in Red are straight out of the
>> Guide. I've given what I can find in the Guide as the closest example
>> of a proposed new maneuver.
>>
>>
>> #1. Take-off (K1)
>>
>> #2. Double Immelmann with half roll first, full roll second, inverted
>> entry, exit upright (K4)
>>
>> #3. Half square loop on corner with 1/2 rolls, exit inverted (K2)
>>
>> #4. Pyramid Loop, inverted entry, 1/2 rolls each leg, exit upright. (K4)
>> Guide example - Triangular loop (base at bottom) with half rolls in
>> all legs, exit inverted (K4)
>>
>> #5. 1/2 Square Outside, 1 Snap down, exit inverted (K3)
>>
>> #6. Six Sided Loop on Corner, 1/2 rolls legs 1, 3, 4, 6, exit
>> inverted (K5)
>> Guide example - Six sided loop with 2/4 pt roll on top, inverted
>> entry (K4)
>>
>> #7. Humpty w/Options, exit inverted (K3)
>> Guide example - Humpty bump (push, push, push) half roll up, 2/2pt
>> roll down, inverted entry (K3)
>>
>> #8. two 4 of 8 rolls reversed, exit inverted (K5)
>> Guide example - 4/8 pt. roll, inverted entry (K4)
>>
>> #9. Stall Turn, 2 1/2 rolls reversed up, 1/2 roll down, exit upright (K3)
>> Guide example - Stall Turn, 2/4pt roll up, half roll down, inverted
>> entry (K2)
>>
>> #10. Inverted Avalanche w/1/2 Roll in and out, exit upright (K4)
>> Guide example - Avalanche with 1-1/2 snap, inverted entry (from
>> bottom) (K4)
>>
>> #11. Same as proposed, exit upright (K3)
>>
>> #12. Same as proposed, exit upright (K5)
>> Guide example - Knife edge flight (K4)
>>
>> #13. Same as proposed, exit upright (K2) Might create an option that
>> doesn't change position. Suggest 1 roll up, 1/2 roll down.
>>
>> #14. Figure Z w/2 rolls on 45, exit upright (K4)
>> Guide example - Figure Z with 2/2pt roll up (K4)
>>
>> #15. Three Turn Spin, exit inverted (K2)
>> Guide example - Two turn spin (K2)
>>
>> #16. Cuban 8 w/full rolls, inverted entry and exit (K4)
>>
>> #17. Stall Turn w/1/2 roll down, exit upright ( K2)
>>
>> #18. Loop w/Integrated 1 Roll on Top 180, exit upright (K5)
>>
>> #19. Landing (K1)
>>
>> Total K - 62
>>
>> This meets the Guide with a max of 4 K5 maneuvers and is within the K
>> limit of 60 to 63. It does have only 9 of the 19 maneuvers currently
>> in the Guide. Really 7 of 17 if you don't use the Take-off and Landing.
>>
>> Tony Frackowiak
>> On Jul 9, 2017, at 8:09 AM, Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
>>
>>> Can certainly change it to 2 spins without changing anything
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 9, 2017, at 10:30 AM, John Fuqua via NSRCA-discussion
>>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Totally agree with Jon’s thoughts on spins.
>>>>
>>>> *From:*NSRCA-discussion
>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of
>>>> *Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 9, 2017 9:13 AM
>>>> *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; frackowiak at sbcglobal.net
>>>> <mailto:frackowiak at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA Leadership / Masters
>>>> different sequence
>>>>
>>>> Much better sequence overall. I believe it is more in line with the
>>>> intent of the sequence guide. It certainly makes the transition
>>>> from advanced more doable. It also appears to be less power hungry.
>>>>
>>>> One comment. I, and several others, are not fans of end box spins.
>>>> In heavy crosswinds, like the last NATS, the plane drifts as
>>>> allowed without penalty FOR THAT MANEUVER, even if it goes out of
>>>> box. However, unless the proposal to correct this passes the
>>>> contest board, the following maneuver gets penalized for cross box
>>>> or out of box before the maneuver actually starts. So the pilot
>>>> gets a penalty in one maneuver for allowable drift in another.
>>>> There is no guarantee the proposal will pass. In this sequence, a
>>>> three turn spin allows even more drift than we have with 2.5 in the
>>>> current sequence.
>>>>
>>>> I would argue that the entry and exit of a spin are what really
>>>> count in judging. Therefore, if end box spins are kept, reducing it
>>>> to one turn or 1.5 with a 1/2 roll out reduces the drift component
>>>> considerably. 3 turns is just too many for end box.
>>>>
>>>> I'd also suggest that the top hat have a straight ahead option if
>>>> the pilot does not need to correct in and out. I often wish the
>>>> current sequence had the option.
>>>>
>>>> Good effort!
>>>>
>>>> Jon
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, July 9, 2017 Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion
>>>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Lets look at this, we can replace the Double key (K 5) with an
>>>> avalanche K3 to get the snap in a center maneuver or lets put the
>>>> maneuver we originally had in advanced, and avalanche with ½ roll
>>>> in and out (K4), and remove the snap from the next maneuver reverse
>>>> cuban turnaround. Also changed a stall turn to ½ rolls reversed
>>>> going up.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry formatting problems showing up again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> */Masters proposal/*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> */Maneuver/*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KF
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Notes:
>>>>
>>>> 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Takeoff (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Double Immelman with knife edge flight (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pull to 1/2 loop, immediate 1/4 roll, knife edge flight, 1/4 roll
>>>> same direction, immediate push to 1/2 outside loop, immediate 1/4
>>>> roll, knife edge flight, 1/4 roll same direction to level upright exit
>>>>
>>>> <CCDCC1C3B1DB44578155E81A66BA48EE.png>
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1/2 square loop on corner with 2/4 pt rolls in 2nd leg (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pyramid loop, 2/4, Full roll, 2/4 (D)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Push back to 45 deg down line, 2/4 pt roll, push to level flight,
>>>> Full roll from inverted, push back to to 45 up line, 2/4 pt roll,
>>>> push to level upright exit
>>>>
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1/2 square outside loop, full snap (+ or -) in vert down line, exit
>>>> inverted (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (inverted exit)
>>>>
>>>> 6
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Six sided loop on corner with 1/2 rolls in legs 1, 3, 4, 6, exit
>>>> inverted (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Push at center no rolls on vertical legs. (inverted exit)
>>>>
>>>> 7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Humpty with options: Push, push, push, 1/2 roll up and a full roll
>>>> on the downline, exit inverted. Option 1/4 roll up 3/4 roll down,
>>>> exit inverted (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (inverted exit)
>>>>
>>>> 8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4/8 opposite from inverted, exit inverted (D)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (inverted exit)
>>>>
>>>> 9
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Stall turn with 1/2 rolls reversed going up and 1/2 roll down, exit
>>>> upright (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> avalanche with 1/2 roll in and out (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1/2 roll to inverted, perform an outside loop with a snap at the
>>>> top, complete the loop and perform a 1/2 roll to exit upright.
>>>>
>>>> 11
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Half reverse Cuban Eight with a 1/2 roll on the 45 (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 12
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Knife edge flight with 1 1/4 rolls in and out. (D)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> exit upright
>>>>
>>>> 13
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Top Hat, 3/4 roll up and down exit upright (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 14
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Figure Z with 2 consecutive rolls (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 15
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3 turn spin exit inverted (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 16
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Reverse cuban eight with full rolls from inverted(D)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 17
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Stall turn with half roll down (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 18
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Loop with integrated roll in top 180 (U)*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 19
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Landing (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Total K-factor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 62
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Goal is 60 to 63
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Minimum of 2, max of 3 cross box maneuvers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Minimum of 2, max of 3 downwind rolling
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> maneuvers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Minimum of 2, max of 4 K5 maneuvers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Minimum of 2, max of 3 Snap Rolls
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Minimum of 1, max of 2 Spins
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Minimum 2 stall turns, 4 max
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows 10
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion
>>>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> *Sent: *Sunday, July 9, 2017 3:24 AM
>>>> *To: *Frackowiak Tony <mailto:frackowiak at sbcglobal.net>; General
>>>> pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA Leadership / Masters
>>>> different sequence
>>>>
>>>> Tony thanks for looking at this with an open mind and critical
>>>> eye. To be honest I wasn’t going to initially post this but was
>>>> convinced to by a group of D 1 flyers at the contest yesterday. If
>>>> for no other reason than to show that the committee did consider a
>>>> more “conventional” sequence in addition to the one that was sent out.
>>>>
>>>> And I did change a few things last night after spending the full
>>>> day in the sun and I promise only 1 beer at dinner so I may have
>>>> messed up a thing or 2.
>>>>
>>>> Can this be the basis of the recommended sequence? As I understand
>>>> the process the committee sends the proposals to the BOD. They
>>>> review and in this case have asked for membership feedback and then
>>>> make their recommendations to the committee. If the BOD decides
>>>> that sequence 1 is too difficult and this one meets the goals of
>>>> the NSRCA better then they can ask us to tweak this one instead.
>>>> Did I send this out at the request of the entire sequence
>>>> committee? No I did not.
>>>>
>>>> #4 From top of the box push 3/8 loop to a 45 2 of 4 push back to
>>>> level inverted flight full roll across the bottom push back 3/8
>>>> loop to a 45 degree up line towards top center of the box 2 of 4
>>>> and push 3/8 loop back to horizontal (upright)
>>>>
>>>> Can easily make a case to be a K5 😊
>>>>
>>>> #6 correct ½ rolls only I will have to review current maneuvers for
>>>> the K factor. Pretty late right now but I wanted to provide a
>>>> response as best I could.
>>>>
>>>> #12 comes from P19 and that is the k factor they gave it so that is
>>>> what we were using right or wrong we have to start somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> Double key only reason it is in here is it is in P19 and as I
>>>> stated I sort of like having a few of the same maneuvers as FAI
>>>> (not the clown dance) I need to try to fly it to see if it really
>>>> a good maneuver or not but it is certainly an easy place to swap to
>>>> a K4.
>>>>
>>>> Roll reversal: The knife edge flight you have to roll the other
>>>> way after knife edge to come out upright. But one can be put in
>>>> the stall turns as well or somewhere else if we think another one
>>>> needs to be included.
>>>>
>>>> Snaps. You are correct I misplaced one trying to simplify the
>>>> pattern a little. Maybe after the 1 1/4 roll in the middle of the
>>>> knife edge flight 😊
>>>>
>>>> I will look at the sequence and get one back in there.
>>>>
>>>> Stuart
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows 10
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Frackowiak Tony <mailto:frackowiak at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> *Sent: *Sunday, July 9, 2017 1:48 AM
>>>> *To: *Stuart Chale <mailto:schale1 at outlook.com>; General pattern
>>>> discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA Leadership / Masters
>>>> different sequence
>>>>
>>>> Stuart,
>>>>
>>>> #4. The description doesn't seem to make sense. Isn't it an upright
>>>> entry, PUSH to 45, 2 of 4 roll, PULL to level flight, Full roll
>>>> from upright to upright, PULL to 45, 2 of 4 roll, push to exit
>>>> upright? Or am I missing something? Also, it seems to be pushing
>>>> being a K4. Here are the two closest examples in the Guide.
>>>>
>>>> Triangular loop (base at bottom) with half rolls in all legs, exit
>>>> inverted (K4)
>>>>
>>>> Triangular loop from top (base at bottom) w/ half rolls on 45
>>>> degree legs, 2/4-pt roll on
>>>>
>>>> base leg (K5)
>>>>
>>>> It would seem that the maneuver proposed should be a K5. You might
>>>> want to go with 1/2 rolls on all legs and redo a few things to get
>>>> the upright/inverted thing going again.
>>>>
>>>> #6. I had to actually draw this one out to visualize it. Just so
>>>> I'm sure, you enter inverted and at center push to a 30 degree
>>>> angle? I like the maneuver but I think it's really a K5 not a 4.
>>>> The Guide has no 6-sided loop on corner, but a standard 6-sided
>>>> with just a 2 of 4 on top is a K4.
>>>>
>>>> #12. I still feel that a very good case can be made that this
>>>> maneuver is a K5, not a K4.
>>>>
>>>> Both snaps are in turnaround maneuvers. You need a center snap.
>>>> Guide says: Minimum of two Snap Rolls but no more than three (one
>>>> may be a turnaround maneuver).
>>>>
>>>> The only roll reversal is in the 4/8 opposite. You might want to
>>>> incorporate another in one of the looping maneuvers. Maybe in the
>>>> Figure Z. Maybe a 3 of 4 with a reverse 3 of 4. Or something less.
>>>> Maybe just reverse the 2 rolls. But that might bump it to a K5 also.
>>>>
>>>> You have to address the snap issue and in my opinion you have too
>>>> many K5 maneuvers. Maximum according to the Guide is 4. I think
>>>> this has to be addressed. I would dump the Double Key and use a K4
>>>> from the Guide in it's place as a start.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise to me it looks like a better pattern to work with then
>>>> the current proposal.
>>>>
>>>> Is there any chance that what is worked out here might actually
>>>> make it in as an official proposal?
>>>>
>>>> Tony Frackowiak
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 8, 2017, at 9:26 PM, Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thank you, you are correct I swapped the Cuban with a roll to
>>>> allow better entry to the knife edge roll
>>>>
>>>> To keep the Cuban an inverted entry and exit we can change the
>>>> spin to 3 turn spin with an inverted exit (may bump the k?)
>>>>
>>>> And change the stall turn to 1/2 roll down only.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> */Masters proposal/*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> */Maneuver/*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KF
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Notes:
>>>>
>>>> 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Takeoff (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Double Immelman with knife edge flight (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pull to 1/2 loop, immediate 1/4 roll, knife edge flight, 1/4
>>>> roll same direction, immediate push to 1/2 outside loop,
>>>> immediate 1/4 roll, knife edge flight, 1/4 roll same direction
>>>> to level upright exit
>>>>
>>>> <olpknaibinkfmdnp.png>
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1/2 square loop on corner with 2/4 pt rolls in 2nd leg (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pyramid loop, 2/4, Full roll, 2/4 (D)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Push back to 45 deg down line, 2/4 pt roll, push to level
>>>> flight, Full roll from inverted, push back to to 45 up line,
>>>> 2/4 pt roll, push to level upright exit
>>>>
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1/2 square outside loop, full snap (+ or -) in vert down line,
>>>> exit inverted (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (inverted exit)
>>>>
>>>> 6
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Six sided loop on corner with 1/2 rolls in legs 1, 3, 4, 6,
>>>> exit inverted (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Push at center no rolls on vertical legs. (inverted exit)
>>>>
>>>> 7
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Humpty with options: Push, push, push, 1/2 roll up and a full
>>>> roll on the downline, exit inverted. Option 1/4 roll up 3/4
>>>> roll down, exit inverted (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (inverted exit)
>>>>
>>>> 8
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4/8 opposite from inverted, exit inverted (D)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (inverted exit)
>>>>
>>>> 9
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Stall turn with 2/2 rolls up and 1/2 roll down, exit upright (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Double Key with full roll, 1/2 roll, 1/2 roll, full roll (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pull to a vert up line, full roll, pull back to a 45 deg down
>>>> line, 1/2 roll, push to a 45 deg up line, 1/2 roll, pull to a
>>>> vertical downline, full roll, pull to level upright exit
>>>>
>>>> 11
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Half reverse Cuban Eight with a positive snap roll roll on the
>>>> 45 (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> exit inverted
>>>>
>>>> 12
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Knife edge flight with 1 1/4 rolls in and out. (D)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 13
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Top Hat, 3/4 roll up and down exit upright (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 14
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Figure Z with 2 consecutive rolls (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 15
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3 turn spin exit inverted (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 16
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Reverse cuban eight with full rolls from inverted(D)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 17
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Stall turn with half roll down (TA)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 18
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Loop with integrated roll in top 180 (U)*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 19
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Landing (U)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Total K-factor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 62
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Goal is 60 to 63
>>>>
>>>> On 7/9/2017 12:12 AM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Stuart,
>>>> I believe the reverse cuban with full rolls should be from
>>>> upright.
>>>> Good luck with this.
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> <mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20170710/83e188fa/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: cjialcnhkpanepbl.png
Type: image/png
Size: 226 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20170710/83e188fa/attachment.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Stuart Masters Sequence for 2018-19-1.xls
Type: application/vnd.ms-excel
Size: 16896 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20170710/83e188fa/attachment.xls>
More information about the NSRCA-discussion
mailing list