[NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposal Cycle?

John Gayer west.engineering at comcast.net
Thu Jan 26 13:45:21 AKST 2017


However you do need the mating connector to the balance connector on the 
battery, not the balance connector off an old battery.

On 1/26/2017 1:06 PM, Ronald Van Putte via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
> You are right!  I missed that.
>
> However, how about using dual 2S-850 LiFe packs and a regulator would 
> not be necessary.
>
> Ron
>
>> On Jan 26, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion 
>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>>
>> He already stated he had a dual pack regulator on there.
>>
>> *Scott A. McHarg*
>> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>> Texas A&M University
>> PPL - ASEL
>> Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Ronald Van Putte 
>> <vanputter at gmail.com <mailto:vanputter at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Maybe you should mention that you need a voltage regulator on the
>>     two cells tapped off the low side of the 10S pack or you'll
>>     probably fry your receiver and maybe your servos.
>>
>>     Ron
>>
>>>     On Jan 26, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion
>>>     <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>     <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     You're only 25 grams over and legal at that.  One way to save 30
>>>     grams is to take out 1 rx battery pack and use the low side of
>>>     the 10S pack and 2 of the cells (assuming you're running 2 5S
>>>     packs) as your back up or primary based on what voltage you set
>>>     for each one.  Then, you're at 4995 grams.  There are lighter
>>>     packs out there but there's nothing wrong with the weight of
>>>     what you have. This solution already gets you under 5000g and
>>>     doesn't cost $1.00.  You only need the wire and a balance
>>>     connector of an old pack.
>>>
>>>     *Scott A. McHarg*
>>>     VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>>>     Texas A&M University
>>>     PPL - ASEL
>>>     Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
>>>
>>>     On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:25 PM, <blotch44026 at mypacks.net
>>>     <mailto:blotch44026 at mypacks.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>         I was just wondering what I could possibly do to remove some
>>>         weight from an airplane (a good one) that hits the
>>>         boundaries of our weight rules out-of-the-box? The arguments
>>>         have been folks are using heavy motors, heavy wheels, heavy
>>>         surface controls....etc. I placed the lightest components
>>>         you can purchase and I am still knocking on the door. I am
>>>         wondering what guys are doing?
>>>
>>>
>>>             -----Original Message-----
>>>             From: Scott McHarg
>>>             Sent: Jan 26, 2017 12:56 PM
>>>             To: blotch44026 at mypacks.net
>>>             <mailto:blotch44026 at mypacks.net>, General pattern
>>>             discussion
>>>             Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposal Cycle?
>>>
>>>             Lest we forget, Sportsman - Advanced actually has 5165
>>>             grams which was increased 50 grams last year.  Masters
>>>             now has 5050 grams which was also adopted last year with
>>>             the 1% tolerance.  I was pro weight increase until we
>>>             got the 1%.  Now, I must agree with Dave L.  and we did
>>>             not see a growth in pattern with the additional weight
>>>             added this last year.  I'm not so sure we would with
>>>             another increase.
>>>
>>>             Although the USA has more pattern fliers than most, if
>>>             not all other countries, most manufacturers do not build
>>>             to our (AMA) specifications (although some are doing a
>>>             great job of trying to give us "what we want").
>>>             Manufacturers, especially in a niche market) are going
>>>             to build based on what can be sold to the whole world. 
>>>             Plugs and molds are very expensive to make, tooling is
>>>             another story.  Manufacturers and those designers that
>>>             utilize manufacturers in other countries don't have an
>>>             unlimited budget to have different variants of the same
>>>             model when, in reality, a small number (from a
>>>             manufacturing standpoint) will be sold as a whole.  All
>>>             this to say that we are an oddity.  The rest of the
>>>             world flies introductory classes as well but with the
>>>             sole intent to finally be able to fly FAI.  You actually
>>>             have to earn that right in many places. This is why the
>>>             110-size class has come started to become popular in
>>>             other parts of the world.  Fly the 110's in the intro
>>>             classes and then you can step up to your Formula 1
>>>             machine when you earn the right.
>>>
>>>             A.R.F. aircraft have changed our hobby largely.  We, as
>>>             modelers (can we really be called this anymore) are
>>>             holding manufacturers responsible for what we buy when
>>>             we buy it.  If it's overweight, it's their fault.  When
>>>             you build your own, only you are held accountable.  You
>>>             select the balsa, you decide and the glass cloth, paint,
>>>             clear coat, etc.  You actually take the time to make
>>>             sure it is perfect.  Now, we look for whatever the next
>>>             guy is flying and decide that's what we're going to use
>>>             too.  We don't know what kind of work Dave L., AJ, etc.
>>>             has put into their A.R.F., we just make the assumption
>>>             that it was off the shelf so if he made weight, so
>>>             should we.
>>>
>>>             All just food for thought.
>>>
>>>             *Scott A. McHarg*
>>>             VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>>>             Texas A&M University
>>>             PPL - ASEL
>>>             Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
>>>
>>>             On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:25 AM, blotch44026--- via
>>>             NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>             <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 I forgot to mention fuse weight included an Pletty
>>>                 Advanced
>>>
>>>                     -----Original Message-----
>>>                     From: blotch44026--- via NSRCA-discussion
>>>                     Sent: Jan 26, 2017 12:19 PM
>>>                     To: "Dr. Mike Harrison" , General pattern
>>>                     discussion , 'John Fuqua' , 'General pattern
>>>                     discussion'
>>>                     Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules Proposal
>>>                     Cycle?
>>>
>>>                     Out of the box Invitation before any flights:
>>>
>>>                     Fuse - 3115grams (weighed with Powerbox duel
>>>                     receiver reg, standard landing gear, Futaba
>>>                     BLS451 for Rudder, stab halves with Futaba
>>>                     9650's and Castle ESC 80 light, along with
>>>                     Falcon carbon prop light and a Falcon carbon
>>>                     spinner)
>>>                     Leftwing Panel - 359grams (wing weighed with
>>>                     Futaba S9551)
>>>                     RightWing Panel - 361grams (wing weighed with
>>>                     Futaba S9551)
>>>                     RX Batts - 2 TP 480mah - 60grams
>>>                     WingTube - 51grams
>>>                     Arming Plug 17grams
>>>                     Total Weight = 3963
>>>
>>>                     Compact 2 5000mah 1125grams
>>>
>>>                     Total Flying Weight=5088grams
>>>
>>>                     I could remove the Regulator and save 46grams
>>>
>>>                     Total Flying Weight=5042grams
>>>
>>>                     I could remove Arming plug
>>>
>>>                     Total Flying Weight=5025grams
>>>
>>>                     All of the equipment installed could be
>>>                     considered the higher end of the market...
>>>
>>>                     500 flights and 2 landing gear repairs later -
>>>                     Well I have not bothered weighing it.
>>>
>>>                     The plane does fly very well though...
>>>
>>>                     Any thoughts?
>>>
>>>                     Rick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                         -----Original Message-----
>>>                         From: "Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion"
>>>                         Sent: Jan 26, 2017 11:27 AM
>>>                         To: 'John Fuqua' , 'General pattern discussion'
>>>                         Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
>>>                         Proposal Cycle?
>>>
>>>                         What I take away from here is that there are
>>>                         very good points by all.
>>>
>>>                         *From:*NSRCA-discussion
>>>                         [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                         <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>]
>>>                         *On Behalf Of *John Fuqua via NSRCA-discussion
>>>                         *Sent:* Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:26 AM
>>>                         *To:* 'General pattern discussion'
>>>                         <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                         <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>                         *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
>>>                         Proposal Cycle?
>>>
>>>                         Agree totally. Weight is a false flag for
>>>                         Masters and FAI.    It made some sense to
>>>                         raise the weight for the lower classes as
>>>                         they often fly pass down previously owned
>>>                         planes which tend to grow in weight as they
>>>                         are passed around.
>>>
>>>                         My fear has always been the law of
>>>                         unintended consequences when a radical
>>>                         change is made without fully appreciating
>>>                         the ingenuity of the pattern people.
>>>
>>>                         *From:*NSRCA-discussion
>>>                         [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                         <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>]
>>>                         *On Behalf Of *Dave Lockhart via
>>>                         NSRCA-discussion
>>>                         *Sent:* Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:45 AM
>>>                         *To:* 'General pattern discussion'
>>>                         *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
>>>                         Proposal Cycle?
>>>
>>>                         IF all other things are equal, heavier does
>>>                         not fly better.  The “IF” is rarely (if
>>>                         ever) considered by proponents of raising
>>>                         the weight limit.
>>>
>>>                         IF the added weight is used to increase
>>>                         power, size, or performance, it is an
>>>                         advantage that will raise the performance
>>>                         (and cost) and nothing changes except the
>>>                         cost has increased for everyone.  The reason
>>>                         so many planes are close to the limits is
>>>                         because they have been designed for the
>>>                         greatest performance available within the
>>>                         limits, by pushing right up to the limits.
>>>
>>>                         Most airplane designers have recommended
>>>                         equipment to complete the plane at or below
>>>                         the weight limit. The electric “pigs” that
>>>                         won’t make the weight limit are ALL the
>>>                         modern day large 2M planes when equipped
>>>                         with the heaviest motor, heaviest motor
>>>                         batteries, heaviest RX/servo power supply
>>>                         (dual redundant everything with 10 amp
>>>                         magnetic switches), heaviest servos,
>>>                         heaviest linkages, heaviest wheels, plethora
>>>                         of telemetry sensors, etc. Any airplane can
>>>                         be made overweight. If someone has the
>>>                         opinion it is ok to be less competitive for
>>>                         being overweight, being less competitive
>>>                         with a smaller plane that does make weight
>>>                         is pretty much the same scenario (but is
>>>                         legal to the letter of the rules).
>>>
>>>                         I don’t think we get a lot of new people
>>>                         flying pattern at the NATs…which…in practice
>>>                         is the only contest where weight is
>>>                         checked.  In the northeast US, any number of
>>>                         contests have advertised waivers of the
>>>                         weight limit, and in ~20 years, there have
>>>                         been very few overweight entrants, and I
>>>                         can’t think of any pattern converts as a
>>>                         result of waiving the weight limit.
>>>
>>>                         Regards,
>>>
>>>                         Dave
>>>
>>>                         *From:*NSRCA-discussion
>>>                         [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                         <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>]
>>>                         *On Behalf Of *Oscar via NSRCA-discussion
>>>                         *Sent:* Wednesday, January 25, 2017 9:27 PM
>>>                         *To:* Patternpilot One
>>>                         <patternpilot1 at hotmail.com
>>>                         <mailto:patternpilot1 at hotmail.com>>; General
>>>                         pattern discussion
>>>                         <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                         <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>                         *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
>>>                         Proposal Cycle?
>>>
>>>                         😀😀😀
>>>
>>>
>>>                         On Jan 25, 2017, at 5:46 PM, Patternpilot
>>>                         One via NSRCA-discussion
>>>                         <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                         <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>                         wrote:
>>>
>>>                             I see the potential for more people to
>>>                             fly pattern without the weight limit.
>>>
>>>                             Sa.
>>>
>>>                             Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>                             -------- Original message --------
>>>                             From: Larry Diamond via NSRCA-discussion
>>>                             <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                             <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>                             Date: 1/25/17 5:34 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>>                             To: Whodaddy Whodaddy
>>>                             <whodaddy10 at gmail.com
>>>                             <mailto:whodaddy10 at gmail.com>>, General
>>>                             pattern discussion
>>>                             <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                             <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>                             Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
>>>                             Proposal Cycle?
>>>
>>>                             Hmmmm. No weight limit...
>>>
>>>                             I see a new market for a full 2M wing
>>>                             span on bi-planes sporting a YS-300DZ
>>>                             twin on the horizon... vbg
>>>
>>>                             Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an
>>>                             AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>
>>>                             -------- Original message --------
>>>
>>>                             From: Whodaddy Whodaddy via
>>>                             NSRCA-discussion
>>>                             <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                             <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>
>>>                             Date: 1/25/17 4:20 PM (GMT-06:00)
>>>
>>>                             To: Jas S <justanotherflyr at gmail.com
>>>                             <mailto:justanotherflyr at gmail.com>>,
>>>                             General pattern discussion
>>>                             <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                             <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>
>>>                             Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
>>>                             Proposal Cycle?
>>>
>>>                             Not a fan of rule change for weight ..
>>>                             Cost is an obsolete argument blah blah
>>>                             blah ... Im well under with no
>>>                             extravagant $$$ or measures ... If
>>>                             manufacturers are building heavy
>>>                             components for their planes  and that
>>>                             plane is overweight then dont buy the
>>>                             dang thing .. There is enough
>>>                             information as to the dews and donts to
>>>                             get planes under weight and wat planes
>>>                             leave the factory as over weight pigs...
>>>                             .. I you dont pay attention its ur fault
>>>                             u fly a pig ... Dont change the rules
>>>                             cause u refuse to pay attention ...
>>>
>>>                             Nuff said
>>>
>>>                             G
>>>
>>>                             Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>                             On Jan 25, 2017, at 12:20 PM, Jas S via
>>>                             NSRCA-discussion
>>>                             <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                             <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>                             wrote:
>>>
>>>                                 There is one. The pilot with an
>>>                                 'over weight' can now compete at the
>>>                                 Nats
>>>
>>>                                 Jas iP
>>>
>>>
>>>                                 On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:20 PM, Ronald
>>>                                 Van Putte via NSRCA-discussion
>>>                                 <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                                 <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>                                 wrote:
>>>
>>>                                     Come on now!  How can hobby
>>>                                     shops make some $$$ on a
>>>                                     customer who needs to “buy some
>>>                                     lightness” if the weight limit
>>>                                     is thrown in the trash?
>>>
>>>                                     I hope that all readers realize
>>>                                     that my tongue was firmly in my
>>>                                     cheek when I posted the above. 
>>>                                     There is no advantage in R/C
>>>                                     aerobatic competition for a
>>>                                     pilot to fly a heavy airplane.
>>>
>>>                                     Ron Van Putte
>>>
>>>                                         On Jan 25, 2017, at 10:58
>>>                                         AM, Keith Hoard via
>>>                                         NSRCA-discussion
>>>                                         <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                                         <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>                                         wrote:
>>>
>>>                                         I think its time to throw
>>>                                         the weight limit in the
>>>                                         trash. There is nothing
>>>                                         keeping anyone from
>>>                                         voluntarily spending half of
>>>                                         a paycheck to drop a few grams.
>>>
>>>                                         *From:*NSRCA-discussion
>>>                                         [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                                         <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>]*On
>>>                                         Behalf Of*blotch44026--- via
>>>                                         NSRCA-discussion
>>>                                         *Sent:*Wednesday, January
>>>                                         25, 2017 10:56
>>>                                         *To:*Joe Lachowski
>>>                                         <jlachow at hotmail.com
>>>                                         <mailto:jlachow at hotmail.com>>;
>>>                                         General pattern discussion
>>>                                         <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                                         <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>;
>>>                                         General pattern discussion
>>>                                         <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>                                         <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>                                         *Subject:*Re:
>>>                                         [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
>>>                                         Proposal Cycle?
>>>
>>>                                         +1
>>>
>>>                                             -----Original Message-----
>>>                                             From: Joe Lachowski via
>>>                                             NSRCA-discussion
>>>                                             Sent: Jan 24, 2017 5:04 PM
>>>                                             To: General pattern
>>>                                             discussion
>>>                                             Subject:
>>>                                             [NSRCA-discussion] Rules
>>>                                             Proposal Cycle?
>>>
>>>                                             Does anyone know when
>>>                                             the next rules proposal
>>>                                             cycle begins?
>>>
>>>                                             I think it is time to
>>>                                             stretch the weight limit
>>>                                             to at least 4 ozs over
>>>                                             11 lbs. for electrics in
>>>                                             ALL the AMA classes.
>>>                                             Tired of paying the
>>>                                             proverbial $100 and
>>>                                             ounce to get there. Glow
>>>                                             setups have an
>>>                                             advantage. No doubt in
>>>                                             my mind.
>>>
>>>                                             Flame on.
>>>
>>>                                         _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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