[NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: District Vice President Elections
Joe Walker
vellum2 at bellsouth.net
Thu Dec 7 15:17:51 AKST 2017
Fair enough. I can see how my messages could be interpreted as conflicting.
I believe your understanding correctly reflects the process we are taking. We will be reaching out by phone to the folks that are active, but do not use email. We will need to produce the form and call folks, which does have some time associated with the effort, but we will give the full 30 days response time from when contact is made to allow people adequate time to respond.
Joe Walker
On Dec 7, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Frackowiak Tony <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Joe,
This was sent out before I saw your email. I do believe your statements in the second email on the 5th do tend to conflict, or at least they made things to me less clear.
To be clear, as I understand it, an email will be sent to all NSRCA members in District 7. In that email will be a PDF form that can be printed and mailed in. Also, details of how to vote online will be included in that email. Can I assume if there is no email address on record for a District 7 member that a ballot will be mailed to them?
Thanks!
Tony Frackowiak
> On Dec 7, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Joe Walker wrote:
>
> It's not conflicting. All of those posts acknowledge that a mailed in ballot should be counted if you choose to use that method to vote. See my previous post, which echoes that as well. I do stand by the statement that a mass mailing is a waste of resources.
>
> The concern has been heard, acknowledged that it is worth discussion, discussed, and now resolved. This is how the process should work. Where's there is room for improvement, we will make every effort to improve.
>
> Joe Walker
>
>
> On Thursday, December 7, 2017 3:43 PM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Put out by Joe on Dec. 5th,
>
> Good morning Tony,
> I appreciate your input! Though the Bylaws do not specify a timeline for voting, nor a format for the ballots, we recognize that the spirit of the requirement is to be as inclusive as possible. With that in mind, the BoD will also be sending out mailed ballots to those districts that have more than one person running for the DVP position. If the timeline for the arrival of those ballots does not give adequate time for response prior to the end of the year, we will extend the deadline for receiving ballots to allow a full 30 days response time. So, we are indeed following the bylaws with recognition that the suggested time has been shortened, which we are making accommodations to correct.
>
> Now, go cast your vote!
>
> Best,
> Joe Walker, NSRCA President
>
>
>
> Later put out by Joe on Dec. 5th,
>
> Thanks Jon, Jon and Peter for the input. It's spot on and reflects how we are supposed to be functioning as an organization (electronically... Especially since most of the discussions happen on this forum, which is an electronic format). The discussion to mail out ballots to members in districts with a contested election (D7 in this case) would be an extra effort beyond that which is required by the Bylaws. The current district VP's where a vote would occur could certainly reach out to the local members and determine if a paper ballot is required and or desired. Certainly if there is not a good reason to spend the extra money, let's not just waste our resources.
>
> Tony,
> Does this adequately address your concerns? If not, I don't think it's too much to ask to shift the deadline for the vote just a few weeks to accommodate snail mail for D7 folks that desire a paper ballot.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joe Walker
>
>
>
> You don't see that as conflicting?
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Peter Vogel wrote:
>>
>> Tony, I see *no* conflicting information from Joe. We are *quite clear* and consistent with a decade of past practice: we *distribute* the ballots electronically via NSRCA.us where any member can vote. As in the past, if any member *wishes* to vote by paper, he/she can do so by *mailing* their vote to the Secretary. To my knowledge, that mechanism has *never* been used.
>>
>> Who, exactly, are you concerned will not be able to vote because of our distribution mechanism? I would be happy to ask Charlie to reach out to him/her and ensure that they are able to vote
>>
>> Peter+
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Tony Frackowiak via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> Thank you for that kind comment Ron. It is truly appreciated. I am just trying to get a confirmation from the BOD as they, primarily the president, have put out conflicting info on this list.
>>
>> Derek, you do not speak for the BOD, do you? Last time I looked you are not listed as a current officer. I am just asking questions and so far not getting answers from the BOD. And I am running for office. Can I count on your support?
>>
>> Tony Frackowiak
>>
>>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Ronald Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tony - Do you want some cheese with that whine?
>>>
>>> RVP
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 12:40 PM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca. org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Same old, same old. We did it before so it is correct now. If you complain now you are wrong, because that is how we did it before. So if you make a mistake before, it doesn't have to be corrected now.
>>>>
>>>> Why not make it easier. Change the bylaws to - We will have elections in any manner we please.
>>>>
>>>> Tony Frackowiak
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 10:31 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Please read the meeting minutes of November 8, 2012. The bylaws as written do not specifically state electronic voting but were written generically enough to allow the board to make a decision on how to distribute ballots. So if the board decides to use the website, then that’s what will happen. Since a precedent was set a number of years ago (either by Eric Henderson or Lamar Blair), we’ve continued with using electronic voting since then.
>>>>>
>>>>> c. Ballots are to be distributed to the voting NSRCA members, whenever possible, by the end of November of the election year in a manner approved by the Board of Directors.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why have you not complained about this in past years? All of a sudden this is an issue now?
>>>>>
>>>>> From: NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces@ lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of NSRCA List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca. org>
>>>>> Reply-To: "frackowiak@ sbcglobal.net" <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net>, NSRCA List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca. org>
>>>>> Date: Thursday, December 7, 2017 at 9:40 AM
>>>>> To: NSRCA List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca. org>
>>>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: District Vice President Elections
>>>>>
>>>>> I have yet to hear anything about my requests made on the 5th.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony Frackowiak
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Frackowiak Tony <frackowiak at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>> Date: December 5, 2017 5:48:21 PM PST
>>>>>> To: Joe Walker <vellum2 at bellsouth.net>, General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca. org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] District Vice President Elections
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please forward me the updated bylaws that allow electronic voting. Because the ones marked as January 2013 that are on the website now do not even mention it. If that is what was desired then that is how it should be described in the bylaws. Also, please forward to me the email that was sent to "all" members about voting as I never received an email directly from the NSRCA. Just through this list which is definitely not to "all" members. Also, the bylaws do not allow for "ballots" sent in by membership that were not sent to the members first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The organization must select it's officers by the method outlined in the bylaws. Not by some vague interpretation of the bylaws.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony Frackowiak
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 5, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Joe Walker via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Jon, Jon and Peter for the input. It's spot on and reflects how we are supposed to be functioning as an organization (electronically... Especially since most of the discussions happen on this forum, which is an electronic format). The discussion to mail out ballots to members in districts with a contested election (D7 in this case) would be an extra effort beyond that which is required by the Bylaws. The current district VP's where a vote would occur could certainly reach out to the local members and determine if a paper ballot is required and or desired. Certainly if there is not a good reason to spend the extra money, let's not just waste our resources.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tony,
>>>>>>> Does this adequately address your concerns? If not, I don't think it's too much to ask to shift the deadline for the vote just a few weeks to accommodate snail mail for D7 folks that desire a paper ballot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe Walker
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 2:15 PM, Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a more complete answer, as the NSRCA website is available to *all* members, and notification of the ballot being available is e-mailed to *all* members that constitutes "distribution" from a legal perspective (this has been legally tested by a variety of Homeowners association lawsuits in the past decade). We are required to also accept (at the secretary's postal address) a snail-mail letter from a member indicating their vote. The secretary would then validate the member's address and that they did not also vote online and count the paper "ballot".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But as the NSRCA membership as a whole, given the technical nature of our hobby, tends to be more technically savvy, electronic voting is the norm and I am unaware of anyone taking the paper option since we moved to enable electronic balloting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paper ballots to the whole membership would be a huge expense from a budget perspective, which is why the bylaws were amended several years back to enable a primarily electronic vote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's also *much* easier to audit the results as every member must login to vote and we capture the date and time of their vote and ensure only one vote is cast per member.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter+
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Jon Bruml via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca. org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Not sure what the hub bub is all about
>>>>>>>> Go to nsrca and vote!
>>>>>>>> Done!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jonathan Bruml
>>>>>>>> Techstyles Sportswear
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion- bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 11:03 AM
>>>>>>>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists. nsrca. org; vellum2 at bellsouth.net
>>>>>>>> Cc: nsrca-discussion at lists. nsrca. org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] District Vice President Elections
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tony,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If this helps, I know that when I was president, the membership voted to take out of the bylaws the specific requirement for mailed ballots. The bylaws allow for distribution of ballots by a manner ok'd by the BoD The website posting of the election and casting votes electronically was considered distribution of the ballots. Subsequent votes were primarily done via the website, as I recall.
>>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca. org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Joe,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you for the reply.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please explain to me how website voting conforms to the wording of the Bylaws? Bylaws says that ballots are to be distributed to the voting NSRCA members. It also says in a manner approved by the BOD, but you still must distribute ballots. Voting on a website does not do that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In my opinion, according to the bylaws, the only valid voting is from ballots that have been sent out to the members and returned by them. If I am incorrect please explain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tony Frackowiak
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 5, 2017, at 9:48 AM, Joe Walker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Good morning Tony,
>>>>>>>>> I appreciate your input! Though the Bylaws do not specify a timeline for voting, nor a format for the ballots, we recognize that the spirit of the requirement is to be as inclusive as possible. With that in mind, the BoD will also be sending out mailed ballots to those districts that have more than one person running for the DVP position. If the timeline for the arrival of those ballots does not give adequate time for response prior to the end of the year, we will extend the deadline for receiving ballots to allow a full 30 days response time. So, we are indeed following the bylaws with recognition that the suggested time has been shortened, which we are making accommodations to correct.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now, go cast your vote!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Joe Walker, NSRCA President
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 11:59 AM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca. org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How does this process agree with the NSRCA Bylaws as posted on the NSRCA website? Here they are,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> e. Ballots are to be distributed to the voting NSRCA members, whenever possible, by the end of November of the election year in a manner approved by the Board of Directors.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Were ballots sent out to those on the districts with a contested election? If not, why not?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tony Frackowiak
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 5, 2017, at 6:19 AM, Charlie Barrera via NSRCA-discussi
>>>>>>>>> on wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Voting is now open for your respective District Vice President representative for the term years 2018-2019. Voting closes on December 31, 2017, at midnight. It is open to all current NSRCA members in good standing. After logging in, follow the link on the NSRCA web site. Please vote Results will be tallied and posted in mid January. Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> …Charlie Barrera, Secretary, NSRCA
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrcaorg
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/ mailman/listinfo/nsrca- discussion
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
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>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca. org
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/ mailman/listinfo/nsrca- discussion
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca. org
>>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/ mailman/listinfo/nsrca- discussion
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca. org
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>>>>>>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>>>>>>> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>>>>>>> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <image001png>_________________ ______________________________
>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca. org
>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/ mailman/listinfo/nsrca- discussion
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________ _________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca. org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca- discussion
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________ _________________
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>>>
>>
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>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
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>> http://lists.nsrca.org/ mailman/listinfo/nsrca- discussion
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>>
>
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