[NSRCA-discussion] Competition

Wed Sep 21 08:05:20 AKDT 2016

Maybe we need to redesign our sequences to High-Impact Aerobatics!

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 10:54 AM, DaveL322 via NSRCA-discussion <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

>
> TOC only survived for as long as it did because Bill Bennett took money
> out of his pocket every year.
>
> ETOC had a very difficult time obtaining sponsors the last few years it
> was held.
>
> XFC struggled with finances this year.
>
> These were (are) all invitational events with generally well known
> pilots......and it was the pilots and the high risk flying that attracted
> the relatively bigger audiences.  Advertisers and sponsors don't pony up
> cash without a big audience.
>
> Pattern is not high risk flying....it lacks excitement to the casual
> observer that will watch -
> - an ice skater to see if they crash during a triple jump.
> - a skier that might  lose an edge and hit the snow fence at 60 mph.
> - a 104" extra on a low KE pass to see if it gets too low and cartwheels
> down the runway.
> - drone racing where they might midair ....or slam into part of the course
> and tumble spectacularly .
>
> By comparison, missing a 1.5 snap by 10 degrees is boring.
>
> Much of this goes back to the video link I posted before.......pattern
> planes might be cool....but very few get excited by pattern flying.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
>
> Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note5.
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: John Fuqua via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: 9/21/16 10:49 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: "'Atwood, Mark'" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>, 'General pattern
> discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Competition
>
> How about big cash prizes.   The AMA just hosted a drone racing league
> championship which paid $10,000.    Of course I do not know where the money
> will come from but cash has a certain quality that brings in the people.
>
>
>
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 21, 2016 9:25 AM
> *To:* Larry and Eileen; General pattern discussion
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Competition
>
>
>
> I have to admit this resonates a lot.
>
>
>
> I have a local flyer who you would think is ALL IN for pattern.  He flies
> a full 2 meter plane (Spark Evo) and has a backup 2M.   He practices 3-4
> days a week including most Saturdays and Sundays.  Over the past 3 years
> he’s progressed nicely through the Sportsman, Intermediate and now Advanced
> sequences.    He currently flies advanced quite competitively (In my
> opinion).    He ONLY flies pattern.  Every flight is either a complete
> sequence or working on elements of the sequence with my help.
>
>
>
> HE HAS NEVER BEEN TO A CONTEST.
>
>
>
> I’ve tried for several years to entice him to participate.  He’s NOT
> afraid of competition, quite the opposite, he’s a former national level
> competitive archer.  That’s really his main attraction to pattern…the
> pursuit of perfection.
>
>
>
> But getting away from home for the whole weekend, combined with travel and
> hotel costs, are more than he’s willing to do.    I’m confident I will
> eventually get him to a contest, likely one of the closer ones, at least
> for a day.  But it’s unlikely he’ll ever be “on the tour”.
>
>
>
> I’m not sure there’s a solution to this particular problem.  Not without a
> fundamental change to our execution of the sport.
>
>
>
> -M
>
> *MARK **ATWOOD*
>
> o.  (440) 229-2502
>
> c.  (216) 316-2489
>
> e.  atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
>
>
>
> *Paragon Consulting, Inc.*
>
> 5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
>
> www.paragon-inc.com
>
>
>
> *Powering The Digital Experience*
>
>
>
> On Sep 21, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Larry and Eileen via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Folks,
>
> I see your ongoing concerns about growing the level of participation in
> Pattern. Let me say that while I fly through the Intermediate sequence with
> a pattern airplane regularly, I don’t compete.  I am not a pattern flier.
> The main reason I don’t is because I won’t commit to the time and money
> needed to travel to a different location in the Pacific Northwest every
> other weekend through the season. Either my wife gets to live out of a
> suitcase each Summer, or we are split apart during those times.  Not my
> idea of retirement.   Quite patting yourselves on the back by stating how
> hard the pattern sequence is, because that is not the reason few want to
> get deeply involved in Pattern.  I’ve had several D-8 guys tell me how much
> they spend attending the scheduled events for a season.  Now I’m not saying
> “it costs too much” to travel “the circuit”.  We all decide how much is too
> much.  I am saying when you add together the real total costs, and time
> requirements (6-8, maybe 10 weekends a season) you reduce the number of
> people that want to make these types of commitments. Getting someone to fly
> and practice is not that hard.  We have 3-4 guys doing it here (not
> “pattern guys” yet) to become better pilots.  Will any of them start flying
> at other D-8 locations? I doubt it. Takes too much time.  I think “Pattern”
> is almost a life style.  It is a part of a hobby that requires a large and
> continuing commitment.  Can anyone join this segment of the RC hobby?  No,
> not everyone, but many can.  But most aren’t willing to disrupt their
> families for a hobby to the extent needed to compete.  I know many hobbies
> have similar time and money costs, and most people won’t get involved in
> them either.  Similar issues face the thermal duration glider competition
> folks too.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Larry Fitch
>
> West Richland, WA
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *David Harmon
> via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 20, 2016 9:44 AM
> *To:* 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Competition
>
>
>
> That’s correct John….but back then there were….let’s say….60 entrants to
> almost every contest.
>
> These days with electric power….noise is no longer a concern.
>
> I think our problem is to a large extent….the difficulty of flying Pattern.
>
> Let’s face it guys….flying Pattern is DIFFICULT.
>
> It takes dedication….you cannot just buy your way into the event with
> hardware and be successful.
>
>
>
> Years ago….there were no ARF’s…..a Pattern style airplane had to be
> built…..then you had to learn to fly it…if you could get the engine to run.
>
> This was difficult to say the least…..but the Patterns were much easier
> than today.
>
> Today the situation is totally reversed.
>
> E-power is like a light switch…..it runs perfect every time and when you
> shut it off there is no maintenance.
>
> There are no Pattern kits that I know of…..so most of us fly ARF airplanes
> that are better than most guys can build.
>
> Today the emphasis is on flying…..not messing around with the hardware.
>
>
>
> This is where the modern day  ‘difficult’ part comes in.
>
> Pattern maneuvers are just too damn difficult for new entrants to make the
> jump to the event….even if they already sport fly….attracting non-modelers
> is a non-starter.
>
> This is the main reason that in my opinion…..the NSRCA should make all AMA
> classes non-turnaround or at least classes lower than Masters.
>
> Pattern has to be made ‘do-able’ for existing flyers…..
>
> We need to show these sport flyers that they can actually fly the
> maneuvers the first time out and that they can quickly build skill and take
> home some wood.
>
> That will let many flyers become encouraged enough to get started and stay
> engaged and perhaps become skilled enough to howl with the big dawgs in FAI.
>
>
>
> For the guys that want to have a continuous challenge to their skills….let
> them fly FAI….that should keep them busy for a while.
>
>
>
> We cannot just keep on doing the same old same old…….
>
> Something….anything….needs to be tried to get new entrants and retain
> existing pilots.
>
>
>
>
>
> *David Harmon*
>
> *Sperry, OK*
>
>
>
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *John Pavlick
> via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 20, 2016 10:02 AM
> *To:* 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Competition
>
>
>
> I always thought the reason why we went to turnaround Pattern in the first
> place was to reduce our “footprint” and to minimize noise. This was back
> when we had 60’s and tuned pipes (the good old days) Now that the average
> Pattern plane makes less noise than a freaking butterfly I guess it could
> become an option (no turnarounds) but I don’t think that’s necessary.
>
>
>
> One thing that we tried in D1 was to have an informal / loosely judged
> competition with small electric planes. We opened this to ANYONE although I
> don’t think any nn Pattern pilots ever entered. It was fun but we stopped
> doing it.
>
>
>
> See the REAL “problem” is that, as you said, we’re losing people faster
> than we’re attracting new ones. Just retaining people is good and certainly
> necessary but it just stops the bleeding. You DO need to get new people
> interested but as I’ve said that’s about 1 out of every 10 that has just
> learned to fly. L
>
>
>
> John Pavlick
>
> Cell: 203-417-4971
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
> Integrated Development Services
>
>
>
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *David Harmon
> via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 20, 2016 2:38 AM
> *To:* 'Scott McHarg'; 'General pattern discussion'
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Competition
>
>
>
> Even if we are recognized……the interested person is likely going to be a
> modeler who already is aware of Pattern.
>
> I don’t think any assets or time should be wasted in trying to get
> non-modelers-flyers interested in Pattern.
>
> As others have said…it’s booooring…like watching paint dry.
>
> There are plenty of modelers who already know how to fly but are never
> going to try Pattern.
>
>
>
> In the past….retaining flyers is a larger problem than attracting new
> flyers.
>
> Over the years the entry count dwindled to what it is now….extremely low.
>
>
>
> Why???
>
>
>
> There are a lot of reasons but in my opinion….the most prominent are…..
>
> Turnaround style of maneuvers.
>
> Ever increasing difficulty of maneuvers.
>
> Some clubs resistance to an event that locks up the field for 2 days……or
> even 1 day….for a crummy $50 or so donation to the club from entry fee
> residue.
>
> As others have repeatedly said…..expense. I really don’t buy this because
> Pattern has ALWAYS been expensive…this is nothing new.
>
> If a club flyer is interested enough to try Pattern….he will find a way to
> justify the expense.
>
> The same flyers always win, place or show.
>
> After years of trying…many flyers drop out because they know they do not
> have a chance of taking home any wood….yes, I know, practice more….true to
> a point.
>
> Judging…..well…..we all know about this subject….but I know this causes
> many flyers to drop out.
>
>
>
> All of this is nothing new….it has been hashed over hundreds of times….but
> as Scott said….nothing keeps on happening.
>
> I think that the NSRCA should try something radically new….like change all
> classes below Masters to non-Turnaround maneuvers.
>
> Fly what you bring….up to 30 lbs.
>
> Remove all integrated maneuvers from Masters class.
>
> Have radically fewer contests in an effort to get the entrant count much
> higher at each contest as a way to help club members justify a non-flying
> weekend.
>
> Hopefully a large crowd will attract club members to Pattern……6 guys
> flying for two days ain’t gonna attract anything but hard feelings from
> club members who just want to fly their stick.
>
> If changes similar to the above could be tried….perhaps club members
> should be allowed to sport fly along with the contestants.
>
> This at the least would remove the club members ‘lost weekend’ and perhaps
> change the attitude of some clubs.
>
>
>
>
>
> *David Harmon*
>
> *Sperry, OK*
>
>
>
> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Scott McHarg
> via NSRCA-discussion
> *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2016 4:14 PM
> *To:* Atwood, Mark <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>; General pattern discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Competition
>
>
>
> The original reason I posted this is because we need to really "do
> something" to actually get people to recognize us.  DRL got ESPN and, while
> there is an obvious attraction to this by young and old, they started from
> something and somewhere.  Do we need ESPN?  While nice, the answer is no.
> I wanted to show all of us that this is what is attracting potential pilots
> and, for that matter, getting the notoriety.  The discussion is usually
> "why is this happening" instead of what can we do to "Be like Mike" (in
> this case) and then actually acting on those ideas.  There have been some
> pretty good ones in this thread.  Maybe it's time we acted.  Let's not
> leave it up to someone else to do the acting, each one of us can make a
> difference in our own way and through our own contacts.
>
>
> *Scott A. McHarg*
>
> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>
> Texas A&M University
>
> PPL - ASEL
>
> Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
>
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