[NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics

[tretas513 at yahoo.com]

Kevin Duncan...I think that's a great idea !!
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
------ Original message------From: KEVIN DUNCAN via NSRCA-discussion Date: Wed, Sep 7, 2016 5:36 PMTo: General pattern discussion;Cc: Subject:Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
Back in March 2016, I submitted an article in K-Factor addressing this issue.  You'll find it under District 7.  It may be of interest for you all to go back and re-read it.  After getting to know the Classic Pattern Association guys here on the west coast, I felt that we could possibly incorporate the CPA into our lower classes of pattern.
Curious to know your all's opinion on that since we're already discussing our ideas here.
Kevin

Kevin Duncan duncanbp at msn.com 

From: NSRCA-discussion > on behalf of Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion >
Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2016 2:52 PM
To: Tom Simes; Tom Simes via NSRCA-discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics Remember the effect of the 2% biplane bonus at TOC. Everyone flew a biplane after that.
Also remember TOC started as a pattern contest but wasn't exciting enough. At least a score bonus gives a pilot a chance and wouldn't be a very difficult experiment for us.
To steal a line from Mike"we have to do something even if it is wrong."
Lots of complaining hasn't gotten us anywhere. 
AnthonyGet Outlook for Android



On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 4:15 PM -0400, "Tom Simes via NSRCA-discussion"<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:


What about offering some kind of reasoned and documented scoring bonus
in the feeder classes for using smaller aircraft?

On 09/07/16 12:07, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
> Mike's right.  It won't work because a few can afford the 2M modern planes
> and if one can have it, they all must have it.
> 
> *Scott A. McHarg*
> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
> Texas A&M University
> PPL - ASEL
> Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
> 
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> 
>> You are correct but human nature gets in the way.  Making a rule to limit
>> this fixes a lot of issues. These smaller planes fly very well.  Got to
>> create rules that perpetuate less expense and less difficulty, just being
>> voluntary is not gonna work.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Matthew Finley [mailto:rcfin02 at msn.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 7, 2016 2:28 PM
>> *To:* Dr. Mike Harrison >; General pattern
>> discussion >; 'Scott McHarg' <
>> scmcharg at gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* RE: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>>
>>
>>
>> My thoughts are this, and only in my opinion.... I have the choice to fly
>> any aircraft I choose in any class I choose as long as it is under 11
>> pounds, and no larger than 2 meter ( that's also pretty loose, as I have
>> never seen a scale taken out at a regular meet for 13 years or more). If
>> someone wants to go out and buy a 6s or 8s capable aerobatic bird, and fly
>> Sportsman, Intermesiate, Advanced, masters, or even FAI with it, go for it.
>> We all know that it will be smaller thus harder to judge, maneuvers will be
>> smaller, and etc.... But they are not required to have a 2 meter ship. I
>> don't see why a rule change has to be implemented in those regards as that
>> is the way it is now ??
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Matthew E Finley
>>
>> Q.C.I Technical Assistant
>>
>> 248-794-8487 mobile
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>>
>> From: "Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion" <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>
>> Date: 9/7/16 2:38 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>
>> To: 'Scott McHarg' >, 'General pattern discussion' <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>>
>>
>>
>> I am hesitant to get in this discussion but I want to express that I
>> believe we are in significant decline and I opine that it is because of the
>> expense, complexity and difficulty of flying and competing.  The
>> fundamental reason, I believe, is the cost, complexity and burden of time
>> to simply use the current aircraft.  I have drafted but not submitted a
>> rules change to affect that issue.
>>
>> Fundamentally, I submit that the beginning classes be restricted to
>> smaller aircraft with limitations of powerplant sizes.
>>
>> The existing current pilots flying in those classes have their current
>> aircraft grandfathered in.
>>
>> These classes would be sportsman, intermediate, and advanced.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you would research the cost of aircraft w 22volt systems vs our current
>> systems you will find the cost of smaller aircraft to be ¼ to 1/3 the cost
>> of the current 2m plane.
>>
>>
>>
>> The vast majority of parents will not spend $4000-5000 for their kid to
>> compete a few times in the beginning classes, nor commit a monthly expense
>> of $200+ or whatever to maintain. And then there is the crash and destroy
>> $1000’s in one aircraft.  Even adults won’t commit to that kind of expense
>> themselves.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is more to this but that is the basic underlying cause of the
>> disease.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> >] *On Behalf Of *Scott McHarg
>> via NSRCA-discussion
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 7, 2016 9:49 AM
>> *To:* tretas513 at yahoo.com; General pattern discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>>
>>
>>
>> Mr. Lukas and I were having an offline conversation.  We were discussing
>> why the new guys aren't getting into pattern.  The question, essentially,
>> was what's the difference between those getting into other facets vs.
>> pattern.  This is my opinion and will be part of my article this month in
>> the K-Factor:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The answer I'm about to give you makes it sound like all is lost.  I don't
>> believe it is (which is why we came up with the Club sequence) but let's
>> just stick to what we know and what is obvious from the assumption
>> standpoint for a moment.
>>
>>
>>
>> The answer to your question can be one word only or it can be a million
>> adjectives of the same word.  That word is "cool".  The kids coming up want
>> instant gratification, want to be cool, want notoriety, want to be thought
>> of as the kid who can show off the best.  You simply can't do that with
>> pattern.  Have you watched the fingers of these kids that fly 3D at Joe
>> Nall or IRCHA?  They're slamming sticks.  Then, watch the planes /
>> helicopters and see how much of the stick movement actually equates to
>> control over the aircraft.  Half of the time is spent simply recovering
>> from mistakes.  :)
>>
>>
>>
>> For some reason, the world has changed into a Social Media frenzy.  Kids
>> feel like they're missing out if we as parents threaten to take away their
>> phones as punishment.  Kids don't need to go outside to talk to friends
>> because they can do it on the couch with their phones.  They want instant
>> gratification and instant knowledge.  Most of the time, their friends know
>> what's going on before other people at the event know because of this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pattern is nothing like this mentality at all.  Pattern takes a lot of
>> practice (as you know) and patience and set up and checking to make sure
>> everything is perfect.  Practicing is boring unless you're doing it.
>> There's no "wow factor".  In my opinion, THIS is what we're battling.  In
>> pattern, you actually have to fly the aircraft perfectly.  There's no gyro
>> to make you look better (Quads, Helicopters and Drones), there's not that
>> much of an adrenaline rush (until you're in front of the judges) and
>> there's no screen to stare at like in FPV racing.  Pattern is an art and it
>> takes that special person, the guy that wants to be artistic, to be a
>> pattern pilot.  Our costs are high for the best of the best which all of
>> these kids want.  They don't want a 1980 Super Kaos to learn the skills
>> required.  In almost all other facets, you can have quite good equipment,
>> that is accepted by their peers, for a lot less than what it would take to
>> have a "not bottom of the line" pattern plane.
>>
>>
>> *Scott A. McHarg*
>>
>> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>>
>> Texas A&M University
>>
>> PPL - ASEL
>>
>> Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:40 AM, tretas513--- via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Most pattern fliers know why pattern is declining but won't admit it...too
>> much expense,  too much time invested for practice and traveling, and in my
>> opinion (and a lot of others) turnaround sucks !
>>
>> Flying airplanes and competing is supposed to be fun...it used to
>> be...still is in SPA !!
>>
>> My entire SPA airplane ready to fly costs half what the engine in my 2
>> meter cost and most SPA contests are one day meets...no motels !!
>>
>> Disclaimer: just my opinion !!
>>
>>
>>
>> *Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone*
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ Original message------
>>
>> *From: *Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion
>>
>> *Date: *Wed, Sep 7, 2016 8:40 AM
>>
>> *To: *Jas S;
>>
>> *Cc: *General pattern discussion;
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>>
>>
>>
>> 😎
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2016, at 9:11 PM, Jas S > wrote:
>>
>> Isn't that like hearing a Masters pilot say the roll on the top of a loop
>> shouldn't be in Masters lol. Love ya Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Sportsman isnt easy enough ????
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure how it could get more basic ..
>>
>>
>>
>> But wat ever works lord knows we need something to attract new blood or
>> bring old blood back...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> G
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a note from Jon Carter from the NSRCA BoD.  FYI!
>>
>>
>>
>> Announcing the NSRCA “Club Class!
>>
>> Whether you want to call it Club class or Novice class or whatever, it’s
>> OK, as long as we get more people flying pattern! What is this? Good
>> question, we have heard from the membership that it wou
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