[NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics

[Tom Simes]

What about offering some kind of reasoned and documented scoring bonus
in the feeder classes for using smaller aircraft?

On 09/07/16 12:07, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
> Mike's right.  It won't work because a few can afford the 2M modern planes
> and if one can have it, they all must have it.
> 
> *Scott A. McHarg*
> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
> Texas A&M University
> PPL - ASEL
> Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
> 
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion <
> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> 
>> You are correct but human nature gets in the way.  Making a rule to limit
>> this fixes a lot of issues. These smaller planes fly very well.  Got to
>> create rules that perpetuate less expense and less difficulty, just being
>> voluntary is not gonna work.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Matthew Finley [mailto:rcfin02 at msn.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 7, 2016 2:28 PM
>> *To:* Dr. Mike Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>; General pattern
>> discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; 'Scott McHarg' <
>> scmcharg at gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* RE: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>>
>>
>>
>> My thoughts are this, and only in my opinion.... I have the choice to fly
>> any aircraft I choose in any class I choose as long as it is under 11
>> pounds, and no larger than 2 meter ( that's also pretty loose, as I have
>> never seen a scale taken out at a regular meet for 13 years or more). If
>> someone wants to go out and buy a 6s or 8s capable aerobatic bird, and fly
>> Sportsman, Intermesiate, Advanced, masters, or even FAI with it, go for it.
>> We all know that it will be smaller thus harder to judge, maneuvers will be
>> smaller, and etc.... But they are not required to have a 2 meter ship. I
>> don't see why a rule change has to be implemented in those regards as that
>> is the way it is now ??
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Matthew E Finley
>>
>> Q.C.I Technical Assistant
>>
>> 248-794-8487 mobile
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>>
>> From: "Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion" <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>
>> Date: 9/7/16 2:38 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>
>> To: 'Scott McHarg' <scmcharg at gmail.com>, 'General pattern discussion' <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>>
>>
>>
>> I am hesitant to get in this discussion but I want to express that I
>> believe we are in significant decline and I opine that it is because of the
>> expense, complexity and difficulty of flying and competing.  The
>> fundamental reason, I believe, is the cost, complexity and burden of time
>> to simply use the current aircraft.  I have drafted but not submitted a
>> rules change to affect that issue.
>>
>> Fundamentally, I submit that the beginning classes be restricted to
>> smaller aircraft with limitations of powerplant sizes.
>>
>> The existing current pilots flying in those classes have their current
>> aircraft grandfathered in.
>>
>> These classes would be sportsman, intermediate, and advanced.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you would research the cost of aircraft w 22volt systems vs our current
>> systems you will find the cost of smaller aircraft to be ¼ to 1/3 the cost
>> of the current 2m plane.
>>
>>
>>
>> The vast majority of parents will not spend $4000-5000 for their kid to
>> compete a few times in the beginning classes, nor commit a monthly expense
>> of $200+ or whatever to maintain. And then there is the crash and destroy
>> $1000’s in one aircraft.  Even adults won’t commit to that kind of expense
>> themselves.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is more to this but that is the basic underlying cause of the
>> disease.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>] *On Behalf Of *Scott McHarg
>> via NSRCA-discussion
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 7, 2016 9:49 AM
>> *To:* tretas513 at yahoo.com; General pattern discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>>
>>
>>
>> Mr. Lukas and I were having an offline conversation.  We were discussing
>> why the new guys aren't getting into pattern.  The question, essentially,
>> was what's the difference between those getting into other facets vs.
>> pattern.  This is my opinion and will be part of my article this month in
>> the K-Factor:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The answer I'm about to give you makes it sound like all is lost.  I don't
>> believe it is (which is why we came up with the Club sequence) but let's
>> just stick to what we know and what is obvious from the assumption
>> standpoint for a moment.
>>
>>
>>
>> The answer to your question can be one word only or it can be a million
>> adjectives of the same word.  That word is "cool".  The kids coming up want
>> instant gratification, want to be cool, want notoriety, want to be thought
>> of as the kid who can show off the best.  You simply can't do that with
>> pattern.  Have you watched the fingers of these kids that fly 3D at Joe
>> Nall or IRCHA?  They're slamming sticks.  Then, watch the planes /
>> helicopters and see how much of the stick movement actually equates to
>> control over the aircraft.  Half of the time is spent simply recovering
>> from mistakes.  :)
>>
>>
>>
>> For some reason, the world has changed into a Social Media frenzy.  Kids
>> feel like they're missing out if we as parents threaten to take away their
>> phones as punishment.  Kids don't need to go outside to talk to friends
>> because they can do it on the couch with their phones.  They want instant
>> gratification and instant knowledge.  Most of the time, their friends know
>> what's going on before other people at the event know because of this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pattern is nothing like this mentality at all.  Pattern takes a lot of
>> practice (as you know) and patience and set up and checking to make sure
>> everything is perfect.  Practicing is boring unless you're doing it.
>> There's no "wow factor".  In my opinion, THIS is what we're battling.  In
>> pattern, you actually have to fly the aircraft perfectly.  There's no gyro
>> to make you look better (Quads, Helicopters and Drones), there's not that
>> much of an adrenaline rush (until you're in front of the judges) and
>> there's no screen to stare at like in FPV racing.  Pattern is an art and it
>> takes that special person, the guy that wants to be artistic, to be a
>> pattern pilot.  Our costs are high for the best of the best which all of
>> these kids want.  They don't want a 1980 Super Kaos to learn the skills
>> required.  In almost all other facets, you can have quite good equipment,
>> that is accepted by their peers, for a lot less than what it would take to
>> have a "not bottom of the line" pattern plane.
>>
>>
>> *Scott A. McHarg*
>>
>> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>>
>> Texas A&M University
>>
>> PPL - ASEL
>>
>> Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 9:40 AM, tretas513--- via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Most pattern fliers know why pattern is declining but won't admit it...too
>> much expense,  too much time invested for practice and traveling, and in my
>> opinion (and a lot of others) turnaround sucks !
>>
>> Flying airplanes and competing is supposed to be fun...it used to
>> be...still is in SPA !!
>>
>> My entire SPA airplane ready to fly costs half what the engine in my 2
>> meter cost and most SPA contests are one day meets...no motels !!
>>
>> Disclaimer: just my opinion !!
>>
>>
>>
>> *Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone*
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ Original message------
>>
>> *From: *Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion
>>
>> *Date: *Wed, Sep 7, 2016 8:40 AM
>>
>> *To: *Jas S;
>>
>> *Cc: *General pattern discussion;
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Club Class for Precision Aerobatics
>>
>>
>>
>> 😎
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2016, at 9:11 PM, Jas S <justanotherflyr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Isn't that like hearing a Masters pilot say the roll on the top of a loop
>> shouldn't be in Masters lol. Love ya Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> Sportsman isnt easy enough ????
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure how it could get more basic ..
>>
>>
>>
>> But wat ever works lord knows we need something to attract new blood or
>> bring old blood back...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> G
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion <
>> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a note from Jon Carter from the NSRCA BoD.  FYI!
>>
>>
>>
>> Announcing the NSRCA “Club Class!
>>
>> Whether you want to call it Club class or Novice class or whatever, it’s
>> OK, as long as we get more people flying pattern! What is this? Good
>> question, we have heard from the membership that it would be nice for the
>> NSRCA to define a non-rulebook pattern entry level event that a CD could
>> offer if they so decided. This would be a non-turnaround “old-school” type
>> of pattern that any club flyer could do and yet still be challenged by. It
>> will give the CD the opportunity to grab some of the “hot dog” type sport
>> flyers at his club, and maybe some old time pattern pilots, and hand them a
>> maneuver/downgrade sheet and say “come on out to the pattern contest next
>> weekend and see what you can do!” Who knows, if he can get three or four
>> club flyers to come out maybe some will think, “Hey, this is fun! I could
>> learn that Sportsman pattern” Worst case it will get some more club flyers
>> to participate in local events which always makes it easier to “sell” a
>> pattern contest to the local club officers! So, dust off those older
>> pattern planes and those sport planes and come out and have some fun! Look
>> on the NSRCA website under the Sequence tab for the maneuver list and
>> descriptions.
>>
>> https://nsrca.us/index.php/sequences
>>
>>
>>
>> *Scott A. McHarg*
>>
>> VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
>>
>> Texas A&M University
>>
>> PPL - ASEL
>>
>> Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jason
>> http://jasonshangar.weebly.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> 


-- 
Tom

======================================================================
   "Z80 system stack overflow.  Shut 'er down Scotty, she's
         sucking mud again!" - Error message on XENIX v3.0

Tom Simes                                       simestd at netexpress.com
======================================================================