[NSRCA-discussion] Osiris for sale
Jay Gerber
jaysgerber at earthlink.net
Thu Nov 10 05:23:58 AKST 2016
While we are on the subject of planes for sale..if anyone is interested in a
"pristine" RTF Osiris let me know...pick up or meet somewhere ...I'm in
Sarasota, Florida.
Pics and details on request...
Jay
Email: jaysgerber at earthlink.net
Cell: 215-805-0685
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Charlie Barrera via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 6:59 PM
To: S. McNickle; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My Head is Spinning
Yes, I have, and the Integral has served me well. It is my back up plane,
and as long as I can keep it flying, it will stay in my stable. It flies
quite well, and is responsive, but not sensitive. It's had many repairs,
the most serious being repair of the fuselage after it broke in half right
behind the wing root. I may rename the model the Phoenix! BTW, it made
weight at this past year's NATS.
Charlie B
On Nov 8, 2016, at 4:33 PM, S. McNickle via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
I think a more generous allowance for Advanced and Intermediate would keep
most used airplanes eligible for a long time. I think used airplanes are
the way for a guy to get started at a somewhat reasonable cost and the
increased allowance would let him have a fling at the Nats.
There are lots of good used airplanes out there, but many have been
repaired. Take a look at the next Integral you see, there's a real good
chance there are some repairs around the landing gear area. I think Charlie
Barrera has been flying one at the Nats for as long as I've been going, and
Anthony Abdullah manages to use one to make most of us look silly.
_____
From: "John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2016 5:24:46 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My Head is Spinning
Since the 5000+50 gram weight rule applies to both FAI and AMA Masters and
any reasonable rule change proposal regarding removal of the weight
limitation would apply only to AMA classes below Masters and since the
airframe designers will design only for the two top classes, how could there
possibly be any impact on new designs?
Is there any impact on designs right now while the only weight checks in
this country are done at the Nats? I don't see it.
The only possible impact to removing the weight limitation on lower classes
is that someone may come to the Nats in Intermediate or Advanced that would
have stayed home. Isn't looking at ways to increase Nats participation where
this thread started?
John
On 11/8/2016 2:54 PM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
In both cases though these were FAI rules that were also mirrored by AMA.
FAI had a 10cc displacement limit ( .61cu in) and allowed for a 20cc FS.
The 2M rule was already in place, along with the 5Kg weight rule, long
before the elimination of the displacement rule, so that was not a trade
off. It just provided "room" for the planes (already 2m in length and
width) to grow in volume and height. Right now weight is the only thing
keeping that in check. Eventually (with no weight limit) the 2M box would
indeed be the final restriction, but not before we see another evolution of
larger aircraft.
MARK ATWOOD
o. (440) 229-2502
c. (216) 316-2489
e. atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
Paragon Consulting, Inc.
5900 Landerbrook Drive, Suite 205, Cleveland Ohio, 44124
www.paragon-inc.com <http://www.paragon-inc.com/>
Powering The Digital Experience
On Nov 8, 2016, at 3:32 PM, Del via NSRCA-discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
Hi Jim..
Well I don't intentionally not reply to anyone asking me f/u if your query
doesn't not appear in the top of message addressed to me expect I will not
realize it is directed at me..
That time frame Jim goes back to the 70's when largest engines allowed were
.60 sized displacement. The feeling was to open it up to then weak 4 cycle
would help stimulate more selection. I do not have any of my old reg. books
from that time frame.. But there used to be a rule no larger than 60 size
engine which dictated how big and large the planes could become to fly
competitively.. Why many went for the screamers in Rossi's and Webra's with
tuned pipes. They were rockets on the downhill.. I was using an Enya and
some were using Supertigers.. In order to get a more constituent speed on my
Enya I had gone to an 11x8 prop which pulled better in the loops and stall
turns but it was not meant to be a piped engine.. It was long stroked
compared to the Rossi's and Webra's.. I scored poorly because of the
perception factor it didn't lok right compared to all the screamers.. LOL
little did I know the trend would change to lower revs. and loading the
engine.. I do not recall the exact yea
r the board and members pushed for the rule change to allow up to 1.20 4
cycles.. I also do not remember the exact year the whole displacement
restriction was dropped in favor of the 2m rule to become the limiting
factor.. Thanks for asking Jim.. Best wishes to you..
Del
---- James Hiller via NSRCA-discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
Del, I don't remember that 4 cycle motors were ever disallowed. The oldest
rule book I have is 84-85 which restricted 4 cycle motors to 1.22 cu in FAI
and a 50% calculation in AMA.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Del via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 8:35 AM
To: drykert2 at rochester.rr.com; General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My Head is Spinning
AGAIN ~~ Please realize my words should not be considered as a personal
attack on any one individual.. the thoughts of many and often those in power
and control lead a mind set that feed and created what we have today.
1.) The first major step was allowing 4 cycle to enter in the fray.. The
justification being presented at that time was Rossi and Webra's where
mostly used. Opening the field to 4 cycle would mean new manufacturers to
make more
---- Del via NSRCA-discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
Yes all I can and will be glad to when I have enough time to draft it in the
ASAP and no later than sometime tomorrow. Many of the items will be repeats
that have been aired before but as long as asked for clarification I will be
glad to share.. it does span many years and not a dig for any current
officers but to all past voting members and past board members that pushed
their agendas. It will take my old mine time as I am not as creative as I
once used to be.. lol..
Del
---- cahochhalter via NSRCA-discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
Can you explain that response?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Jon Bruml via NSRCA-discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: 11/6/16 8:32 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Scott McHarg <mailto:scmcharg at gmail.com> <scmcharg at gmail.com>, General
pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>, drykert2 at rochester.rr.com
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My Head is Spinning
Ya do so
Jonathan W. Bruml
Techstyles Sportswear
_____________________________
From: Scott McHarg via NSRCA-discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2016 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My Head is Spinning
To: General pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>, <mailto:drykert2 at rochester.rr.com>
<drykert2 at rochester.rr.com>
Del,
Please enlighten us about "the decisions that the board was making" and what
those consequences were that caused a decline. Please be specific.
On Sunday, November 6, 2016, Del via NSRCA-discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
I realize this is beating the dead horse that all ready left the barn... But
guys.. you were all warned of the consequences of the decisions that the
board was making and the agenda the NSRCA was taking.. Granted many felt for
the best of the sport it needed to have those changes made.. They didn't
want to look at the down side of those changes.. that is unfortunate.. But
unless a lot of time and some money is spent getting more clubs interested
in hosting pattern contest you are not going to stimulate pattern to the
degree you desire.. Many beginners are not about to drive hundreds of miles
to a pattern contest they know little about and don't know if they have any
interest. A close by field hosting a pattern event that catches a newcomers
eye will hook them if they see it and wish they could do that.. That is
what drove many to join pattern.. seeing some of us competing or practicing
our skills and said to themselves ~~~ Dang ~~ that guy is pretty good..
Wonder what it takes t
o
be like that... Then you have someone hooked.. But driving away the little
people who were the food sores for future growth was a killer and having
clubs fall away from hosting was the 2nd killer.. How many are going to make
the investment and commitment if only two or 3 events are held in easy
driving distance for many that have all kinds of demands of family and other
commitments on their time.. Those that get hooked make changes in their time
commitments to participate as much as they can.. But the sport has to be
visible to a portion of the modelers that all ready fly to grow IMHO..
Del
---- Pete Cosky via NSRCA-discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
wrote:
Keith I didn t know you and I were members at the same club..LOL
Seriously the conversation of growing pattern and what we can do and
what is
a good idea keeps coming up but the one thing overlooked in most
conversations is the slice of the pie. I have to say Anthony and Chuck
hit
the nail on the head. No matter what we are competing against other
interests and demands on time.
Growing Pattern we talk about introducing people to it and making it
easier to attract new blood but we lose sight that this discipline,
and make
no mistake it is a discipline, only appeals to a very few that not
only want
to challenge themselves but then also get ranked against others to see
how
well they are progressing. It isn t for everyone. Making it too hard
is an
issue but so is dumbing it down to the point that people get bored or
its
too big of a jump from the introductory class to Intermediate.
Stopping the exodus of competitors There is NOTHING that will make
people
stay, life changes and so do priorities. I love pattern and made a lot
of
friends that I miss but I haven t flown a pattern plane in 3 years let
alone
practiced a sequence. I didn t even put up a single RC flight this
year. My
son is 10 and has no desire to fly RC so guess what dad doesn t go to
the
field and miss the baseball game, the Tae Kwon Do testing or even
playing
catch in the yard. My job has changed and that was the start but John
not
wanting to fly was the hammer blow that finally stopped my participation.
Priorities I don t even go to my local club meetings anymore (for a
myriad
of reasons other than time). When John is a little older and dad is
not cool
anymore I can see me flying again.
I will say this and then I will go play catch with John:
Moving the NATS or any other idea may or may not be a good idea but
nobody
knows until we try. If anyone on this list says an idea is bad then
you have
given up before you even tried and that is the same as saying I m not
going
to the contest because I might not place first.
Do I personally think removing the weight limit is bad? Yes I do.
Do I personally think moving the NATS is a bad idea? No I do not.
Do I personally think Anthony should not have bought a smoker and just
used
a barbecue grill? Yes and he know that. :-)
Guys, I wish I was more active and had the time, but the answers
aren t in
fighting or quitting but in trying different things. I have found a
million
ways to fail in my life and I have also found as many ways to succeed
but
that is only because I tried.
Hope to see you all in the coming years.
Pete
From: NSRCA-discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on
behalf
of Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Reply-To: Keith Hoard <mailto:klhoard at outlook.com> <klhoard at outlook.com>,
General pattern
discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 11:53 AM
To: 'cahochhalter' <mailto:cahochhalter at yahoo.com>
<cahochhalter at yahoo.com>, 'General pattern discussion'
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My Head is Spinning
I can t even convince the members of my club to obtain the skills
necessary
to keep from crashing into the pits every third flight . . .
So pattern is way out . .
-Keith Hoard
-klhoard at outlook.com
From: NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
On
Behalf Of cahochhalter via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2016 09:44
To: W Anthony Abdullah <mailto:aabdu at sbcglobal.net> <aabdu at sbcglobal.net>;
General pattern
discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My Head is Spinning
So if we turn pattern in more of a spectator sport wr will attract
more
pilots.
No one has addressed how the hobby itself has changed. The building of
pla
es is gone. 3D, helis, quads, fpv and our general ama focus is no
where near
pattern. Pattern is about the indiviual who decides they want to be
better,
its personal. Its attracting local pilots with other local pattern
individuals thats keepa it going. It's not a magazine article, a
scoreboard,
the Nats, or the NSRCA.
Until we as individuals take responsibility for growing pattern and
dont
place blame on an organization such as the NSRCA for trying to keep up
with
change and no one knows the answer.
No one has mentioned poor judging at Nats, biased judging, lack of
commitment to an event where at yhe end of the week the same few
people are
left to judge finals and then people complain about the lack of
selection as
some districts obviously are more commited than others so the judging
pool
is loaded for different parts of the country.
Comments made online about the success of ensuring some pilots made
the
finals in masters so they dont judge fai.
Do these things not hinder participation in pattern due to the
negative
perception of events and lack of effort to address them.
Moving the nats isnt going to fix anything, but it might bring a
breath of
fresh air into a sport that is stagnant.
Maybe mixing in spa / cpa would allow some cross over between
disciplines,
might both organizations grow?
Chuck
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: W Anthony Abdullah via NSRCA-discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: 11/6/16 9:12 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: John Gayer <mailto:jgghome at comcast.net> <jgghome at comcast.net>, General
pattern discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My Head is Spinning
I like the scoreboard idea. Perhaps we need to make pattern more of a
"show". Big jet events and even our annual club big bird fun fly has
an
announcer. Imagine Michael Buffer announcing the pilot and calling the
next
maneuver over the PA system <JK>. We don't need to go all WWF but a
little
showmanship wouldn't hurt. Imagine baseball without announcers.
Mark A, don't you dare nominate me as the permanent "color" man. :o)
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 5, 2016, at 6:45 PM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
The Contest board has already received a number of proposals to
change the
rules.
There are three that pertain to this discussion:
1. Proposal to eliminate the advancement criteria and allow
contestants to
step backwards in class at the end of the year
2. Elimination of the weight rule for Sportsman, Intermediate and
Advanced
3. Eliminate the box requirements for Sportsman
I suggest that if you have opinions on these proposals, that you
find out who
your representative is, and make your opinion known. It seems clear
that there
are some making an attempt being made to address some of the issues.
Any AMA
member can propose a rule change. If you feel strongly about any of
the
suggestions made in this thread, I suggest you propose a change that
you feel
would positively impact pattern.
Other ideas.
Something that has been done by the NSRCA is introduction of the Club Class.
Personally I do not feel that it would be appropriate to add a class
at
pattern contests. However it would be a great vehicle for running a
pattern
seminar for your area. Come up with some drawing prizes, some
pattern guys to
help, someone to cook some hot dogs for lunch, someone(s) to run a
seminar on
"what is pattern" and finish up with a couple rounds of club class.
Make it an
annual event and make sure the word gets to all the clubs in your area.
Another thing that needs to be done is to have a real scoreboard. A
large
scoreboard. This is essential for any spectators most of which are
RC flyers
with no or little exposure to pattern. Without a way to tell what is
going on
and who is doing it, a spectator will watch two flights and leave very
bored.
The scoreboard should have:
1. Pilots Name
2. Photo of pilot and Model
3. Scores by round with both raw and normalized scores
4. Current standing in class
5. Handouts available for:
* What is pattern including explanations of the classes
* Ribbons and Aresti of the sequences being used and explanation
of scoring,
k-factors and normalization
* How about pilot Bios?
6. There needs to be someone designated to support the board if you
have much
traffic.
How about a Senior award like IMAC does at local contests? The NSRCA
used to
do this at the NATs but it seems to have faded away.
John
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--
Scott A. McHarg
VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot
Texas A&M University
PPL - ASEL
Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107
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