[NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +

Tue May 19 07:42:01 AKDT 2015

I want to give a real work example of why I like a physical external
disconnects like an arming switch or equivalent.  This weekend at Muncie I
was returning to my judging chair when a plane landed a little long.  I was
closest to the plane and I decided to flag the plane down for the caller to
give the older caller (VerneJ) a little hand.  I carried the plane to the
runway grass edge.  This plane did not have an external disconnect and I
don’t open other people’s canopies so I had to wait until Verne got to the
plane before I could walk away.  If it had an external disconnect I would
have disarmed the plane.  Pulling an arming plug or disconnecting the
external wires is easy and quick.  If the pilot had some sort of throttle
hold or some other solution how would I know that?

Another reason I like external disconnects is that it facilitates trimming
an airplane.  I like to fly a few maneuvers (knife edge flight for example)
land pull the arming plug then adjust the radio and repeat.  I know by
pulling the arming plug that I won’t accidently bump the throttle and cause
the plane to lurch forward.  Switches on radios can be bumped or not engaged
just as easily as bumping the throttle.  Again, how does the person flagging
down the plane know the plane is disarmed unless the disarming solution is
external and physical?

We had someone’s plane at Muncie die in flight because the power pole arming
plug was not fully engaged by the caller who was not totally familiar with
how they work.  The caller was worried about pushing too hard on the fuse to
get them to click into place.  I use the deans style arming plug which
doesn’t require any type of force to engage the plug.  Pilots need to pick
the external disconnect solution that works best for them.  Even given this
example of an external disconnect failure; I am still a big advocate for
this safety feature.

What are the down sides to physical external disconnects?  It’s ugly, it
adds weight, it isn’t fool proof, it adds another failure point, it cost
money and I’m sorry if a missed one or two more.  Those are weak excuses.
It’s ugly, boo hoo.  It adds weight but some people add a backup receiver
pack which adds weight.  It isn’t fool proof, nothing is, but by adding
another layer of safety the risks go down.  It adds another failure point,
true, two solder joints and maybe not engaging the plugs correctly which can
be prevented by selecting the proper solution. It costs money, really, $20
if you buy an arming plug or free if you use external wires.

Thanks

Ron

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Dave Lockhart via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 8:25 PM
To: chuenkan at comcast.net; 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +

I started flying electrics in 2003, after attending the NEAT fair and
watching the pattern demo Jason put on with the Rhapsody.  And I started
flying electric pattern in 2006 when I felt sufficiently comfortable with
electric setups.

I’ve seen a number of people post specific instances of electrics with
inadvertent “power ups”.  I think it would be quite interesting (if it
existed) to see a break out of how/why the power ups happened.  From my
experience, the most common scenario for the inadvertent power ups is one
that affects glow and electric almost equally…..bumping the throttle stick.
I think I have seen as many or more instances of glow “power ups”….including
starts at half or full throttle….which can’t happen with a properly setup
electric (the ESC won’t arm until it sees low throttle).

I don’t know how many times I have seen a transmitter dropped….causing the
throttle stick to advance.  A transmitter almost dropped…and the last minute
grab advances the throttle stick.  An arm, or sleeve, or jacket drag across
the transmitter causing the throttle stick to advance.  A transmitter neck
strap / tray is being attached, or put around the pilots neck…and the
throttle stick advances.

With electrics, there are a couple ways to avoid the inadvertent power up.
Keep the TX turned off (as Jason does, and a number of others) and rely on
the radio failsafe (and the ESC failsafe).  Use a throttle hold switch that
keeps the ESC from running the motor.  Neither of these options really help
a glow engine very much.  Hmmm…one could make the argument an electric is
safer…..even without an arming switch.

I have a hold switch on the throttle, and I know my failsafe is programmed
(and I check it regularly).  I was always taught to turn on the TX first,
then the RX, and turn off the RX first, and then the TX.  That is what I am
comfortable with.  I agree 100% with John F….if you don’t feel comfortable
with the setup of an electric flyer….don’t be their pit crew.

Regards,

Dave

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
Behalf Of Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 3:23 PM
To: Peter Vogel; nsrca-discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +

Yep, they really ugly up a pretty pattern plane flying inverted @ 450 ft on
a bright sunny day...

  _____  

From: "Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
To: "John Ford" <jsf106 at gmail.com>, "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 1:51:22 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +

Yep  Those are nice.  I just don't like the look of having wires hanging out
of my plane.

Peter+

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:50 AM, John Ford via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

On my setup with the external "red wire", I use the JETI 4mm "bleed plugs"
that have a resistor built into the "nose" of the female socket. It totally
eliminates arc. 

John

On May 18, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

True, but it does get spread around to multiple battery connectors, not
confined to the same pair of plugs.  But I agree, it's a good idea to use
the bleed resistor.   

On May 18, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com> wrote:

Arcing damage is gonna happen to connectors regardless of arming plug or
not.  With an arming plug you can prevent arcing damage by using a small
push switch that enables current to flow through a 1W resistor to slowly
charge the ESC caps before plugging in the deans jumper.  Without an arming
plug, unless your ESC has a spark suppression circuit, you are going to
degrade the male deans connector on your ESC, which is much harder to change
than the Deans shorting plug.

Peter+

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Yep.  Trying to fix Human nature is not an easy thing.  Education to the
dangers may do more than yet another rule that can be overlooked. Peer
pressure helps as well.  

The first thing I do is remove the canopy and take all the connections
apart.  One time the canopy latch broke.  I wished I had an arming plug that
day, but I immediately ripped the canopy off to get it disconnected.  

In general though, I don't like another connector in the mix.  I've had a HD
Deans plug go intermittent due to some arcing damage.  It had only about 10
flights, and luckily when the motor cropped out it was still in the takeoff
roll.  I want fewer connectors, not more.

On May 18, 2015, at 12:58 PM, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

So what happens when you don't have the Arming Plug Police on scene?  

I submit that the same guy that leaves his batteries connected in his plane
in the pits won't remove the arming plug either. 

-Keith Hoard
-Sent from my Windows Phone

  _____  

From: Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Sent: ‎5/‎18/‎2015 11:48
To: Vicente Bortone <mailto:vincebrc at gmail.com> ; General pattern discussion
<mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +

I'm a bit of a history buff.  All this discussion is reminiscent of the
heated discussions that occurred in the newspapers of the day when, first
Britain, and later the United States, imposed rules on how one drives a car
on the motorways of the day.  People complained bitterly at being "confined
to the side" of roads (left or right) and being "constrained to a speed
little more than walking speed" (which, was, in fact, the constraint in the
early 1800's when cars were steam powered).  When signage, and, later,
traffic lights appeared in the early 20th century, the uproar was quite
similar.  Everyone had an argument why "their" driving process was
absolutely accident proof and if everyone just followed their brilliant
safety system there would be no need for such ridiculous and outrageous
"regulation" and "government intrusion" into their preferred activities. 

The proposed rule makes no requirement for an arming plug, but it does
require: 

 "the electric power circuit(s) must not be physically connected, before the
starting time is begun or the aircraft is preparing to be taken out to the
runway for the flight and must be physically disconnected immediately after
removal of the aircraft from the landing area."

 Personally, given the hassle of canopy removal and replacement,
particularly just prior to flight, I will use an arming plug as I have since
I got into this sport.  Even my first electric helicopter (which is how I
got back into RC after a 15 year hiatus) had an arming plug, even with the
added safety of a throttle hold switch on the TX.  It was cheap and easy
insurance to be certain I never had a situation where I'd unexpectedly
encounter a 290mph blade tip speed...

I've been at a *lot* of contests where people from the anti-arming plug camp
have lost their canopies in flight.  Hmm.  Maybe the task loading of
preparing the fly a round, telling your caller where you want the plane
positioned on the runway, AND removing your canopy to plug your batteries in
and then replacing the canopy is too much?  Or maybe relying on a caller to
know exactly how your canopy needs to be secured is expecting too much of
them?  I trust anyone on the flight line to take my plane out and plug in
the deans arming plug securely and remove it before they roll my plane into
the pits...

Peter+

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Jason,

The most important part of your experience is that you were able to see that
the arming plug was still in place. At least you have chance to ask if plane
was armed and question the pilot. I got a real experience that I would like
to share. We were only three pilots at the field. One of them put his plane
in the pits. The other pilot and me were next to him. Few minutes later the
owner went to get something and walk away from the plane. After he left, his
plane took off in flying over the pits and flew away crashing in the middle
of the runway. We were lucky that nobody was hit and were were only three
pilots. I was a real wake up experience since we never were aware that the
plane was armed.  We never found what was the real cause of the problem
since the plane was destroyed. For sure the owner left the plane armed and
didn't have the arming plug. The radio was off as far as I know but never
really have a chance to confirm this.  After the scare, I had a chance to
talk and recomend to add an arming plug.  The plane owner went ahead and
added arming plugs to all his planes and he was glad to know that there is a
way to potentially avoid this type of incident again.  It is clear that the
arming plug won't fix anything if pilots leaves the arming plug in place but
give the oportunity to fellow pilots to warm him of a potential problem.  I
just read John Ford's e-mail.  He makes the point more clearly than me but I
think this is one real life example that confirms what he just said.

Thanks,

Vicente "Vince" Bortone  

On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 7:36 PM wayg2013 via NSRCA-discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Hmmm arming plug.... My 1911 'll plug about anything... Now thats what I
call being armed...hee hee

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Larry Diamond via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Date:05/17/2015 5:31 PM (GMT-06:00) 
To: Jas <justanotherflyr at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe + 

Looks like the arming plug debate has surpassed the snap debate.... Gotta
love progress.

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Jas via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Date: 05/17/2015 3:19 PM (GMT-06:00) 
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe + 

Random thoughts about all this.

I've watched a pilot forget to turn off his plane (and subsequently not
having pulled his arming plug) and idle up while near the pits (he happened
to have a hold of it still). It surprised him when it did it. It was during
practice here and we normally taxi up the taxi way to the no taxi line, so
its not a 'normal' contest type situation. Point: arming plug did nothing in
this case.

I personally feel that fail safe and an external on-off Rx switch is 'safer'
(when fail safe is set correctly) and should be mandatory. If the fail safe
is set correct then even if the Tx is turned off the motor won't turn on. If
there is an external Rx switch and it gets turned off then (in theory and so
far in all my years flying E) the motor doesn't run after it's off. I've
always asked Dave (or whoever gets my plane) to turn off the Rx BEFORE
picking my plane up from the runway. Haven't had one start back up when done
this way. But once back to me, I pull the canopy and disarm it before it
goes anywhere else.

For the way that I do things, I don't see an advantage of a safety plug on
my personal planes. I've been flying electric pattern since '03, so my
habits (Rx power off once landed) are just normal for me. I can certainly
see where some would benefit from an external plug (screws holding on
canopy, battery connection not easy to get to and newcomers to electric),
but I think there is just a different issue...

Maybe as pilots we just need to be more self-aware and responsible?

Sent from my iP
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Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training

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Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training

Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark

Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X

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