[NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +

Mon May 18 21:33:25 AKDT 2015

I started flying electrics in 2003, after attending the NEAT fair and watching the pattern demo Jason put on with the Rhapsody.  And I started flying electric pattern in 2006 when I felt sufficiently comfortable with electric setups.

I’ve seen a number of people post specific instances of electrics with inadvertent “power ups”.  I think it would be quite interesting (if it existed) to see a break out of how/why the power ups happened.  From my experience, the most common scenario for the inadvertent power ups is one that affects glow and electric almost equally…..bumping the throttle stick.  I think I have seen as many or more instances of glow “power ups”….including starts at half or full throttle….which can’t happen with a properly setup electric (the ESC won’t arm until it sees low throttle).

I don’t know how many times I have seen a transmitter dropped….causing the throttle stick to advance.  A transmitter almost dropped…and the last minute grab advances the throttle stick.  An arm, or sleeve, or jacket drag across the transmitter causing the throttle stick to advance.  A transmitter neck strap / tray is being attached, or put around the pilots neck…and the throttle stick advances.

With electrics, there are a couple ways to avoid the inadvertent power up.  Keep the TX turned off (as Jason does, and a number of others) and rely on the radio failsafe (and the ESC failsafe).  Use a throttle hold switch that keeps the ESC from running the motor.  Neither of these options really help a glow engine very much.  Hmmm…one could make the argument an electric is safer…..even without an arming switch.

I have a hold switch on the throttle, and I know my failsafe is programmed (and I check it regularly).  I was always taught to turn on the TX first, then the RX, and turn off the RX first, and then the TX.  That is what I am comfortable with.  I agree 100% with John F….if you don’t feel comfortable with the setup of an electric flyer….don’t be their pit crew.

Regards,

Dave

From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 3:23 PM
To: Peter Vogel; nsrca-discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +

Yep, they really ugly up a pretty pattern plane flying inverted @ 450 ft on a bright sunny day...

  _____  

From: "Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
To: "John Ford" <jsf106 at gmail.com>, "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 1:51:22 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +

Yep  Those are nice.  I just don't like the look of having wires hanging out of my plane.

Peter+

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:50 AM, John Ford via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

On my setup with the external "red wire", I use the JETI 4mm "bleed plugs" that have a resistor built into the "nose" of the female socket. It totally eliminates arc. 

John

On May 18, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

True, but it does get spread around to multiple battery connectors, not confined to the same pair of plugs.  But I agree, it's a good idea to use the bleed resistor.   

On May 18, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Peter Vogel <vogel.peter at gmail.com> wrote:

Arcing damage is gonna happen to connectors regardless of arming plug or not.  With an arming plug you can prevent arcing damage by using a small push switch that enables current to flow through a 1W resistor to slowly charge the ESC caps before plugging in the deans jumper.  Without an arming plug, unless your ESC has a spark suppression circuit, you are going to degrade the male deans connector on your ESC, which is much harder to change than the Deans shorting plug.

Peter+

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Ed Alt via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Yep.  Trying to fix Human nature is not an easy thing.  Education to the dangers may do more than yet another rule that can be overlooked. Peer pressure helps as well.  

The first thing I do is remove the canopy and take all the connections apart.  One time the canopy latch broke.  I wished I had an arming plug that day, but I immediately ripped the canopy off to get it disconnected.  

In general though, I don't like another connector in the mix.  I've had a HD Deans plug go intermittent due to some arcing damage.  It had only about 10 flights, and luckily when the motor cropped out it was still in the takeoff roll.  I want fewer connectors, not more.

On May 18, 2015, at 12:58 PM, Keith Hoard via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

So what happens when you don't have the Arming Plug Police on scene?  

I submit that the same guy that leaves his batteries connected in his plane in the pits won't remove the arming plug either. 

-Keith Hoard
-Sent from my Windows Phone

  _____  

From: Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Sent: ‎5/‎18/‎2015 11:48
To: Vicente Bortone <mailto:vincebrc at gmail.com> ; General pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe +

I'm a bit of a history buff.  All this discussion is reminiscent of the heated discussions that occurred in the newspapers of the day when, first Britain, and later the United States, imposed rules on how one drives a car on the motorways of the day.  People complained bitterly at being "confined to the side" of roads (left or right) and being "constrained to a speed little more than walking speed" (which, was, in fact, the constraint in the early 1800's when cars were steam powered).  When signage, and, later, traffic lights appeared in the early 20th century, the uproar was quite similar.  Everyone had an argument why "their" driving process was absolutely accident proof and if everyone just followed their brilliant safety system there would be no need for such ridiculous and outrageous "regulation" and "government intrusion" into their preferred activities. 

The proposed rule makes no requirement for an arming plug, but it does require: 

 "the electric power circuit(s) must not be physically connected, before the starting time is begun or the aircraft is preparing to be taken out to the runway for the flight and must be physically disconnected immediately after removal of the aircraft from the landing area."

 Personally, given the hassle of canopy removal and replacement, particularly just prior to flight, I will use an arming plug as I have since I got into this sport.  Even my first electric helicopter (which is how I got back into RC after a 15 year hiatus) had an arming plug, even with the added safety of a throttle hold switch on the TX.  It was cheap and easy insurance to be certain I never had a situation where I'd unexpectedly encounter a 290mph blade tip speed...

I've been at a *lot* of contests where people from the anti-arming plug camp have lost their canopies in flight.  Hmm.  Maybe the task loading of preparing the fly a round, telling your caller where you want the plane positioned on the runway, AND removing your canopy to plug your batteries in and then replacing the canopy is too much?  Or maybe relying on a caller to know exactly how your canopy needs to be secured is expecting too much of them?  I trust anyone on the flight line to take my plane out and plug in the deans arming plug securely and remove it before they roll my plane into the pits...

Peter+

On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Jason,

The most important part of your experience is that you were able to see that the arming plug was still in place. At least you have chance to ask if plane was armed and question the pilot. I got a real experience that I would like to share. We were only three pilots at the field. One of them put his plane in the pits. The other pilot and me were next to him. Few minutes later the owner went to get something and walk away from the plane. After he left, his plane took off in flying over the pits and flew away crashing in the middle of the runway. We were lucky that nobody was hit and were were only three pilots. I was a real wake up experience since we never were aware that the plane was armed.  We never found what was the real cause of the problem since the plane was destroyed. For sure the owner left the plane armed and didn't have the arming plug. The radio was off as far as I know but never really have a chance to confirm this.  After the scare, I had a chance to talk and recomend to add an arming plug.  The plane owner went ahead and added arming plugs to all his planes and he was glad to know that there is a way to potentially avoid this type of incident again.  It is clear that the arming plug won't fix anything if pilots leaves the arming plug in place but give the oportunity to fellow pilots to warm him of a potential problem.  I just read John Ford's e-mail.  He makes the point more clearly than me but I think this is one real life example that confirms what he just said.

Thanks,

Vicente "Vince" Bortone  

On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 7:36 PM wayg2013 via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:

Hmmm arming plug.... My 1911 'll plug about anything... Now thats what I call being armed...hee hee

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S® 5, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Larry Diamond via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Date:05/17/2015 5:31 PM (GMT-06:00) 
To: Jas <justanotherflyr at gmail.com>, General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe + 

Looks like the arming plug debate has surpassed the snap debate.... Gotta love progress.

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Jas via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Date: 05/17/2015 3:19 PM (GMT-06:00) 
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> 
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming plug and Failsafe + 

Random thoughts about all this.

I've watched a pilot forget to turn off his plane (and subsequently not having pulled his arming plug) and idle up while near the pits (he happened to have a hold of it still). It surprised him when it did it. It was during practice here and we normally taxi up the taxi way to the no taxi line, so its not a 'normal' contest type situation. Point: arming plug did nothing in this case.

I personally feel that fail safe and an external on-off Rx switch is 'safer' (when fail safe is set correctly) and should be mandatory. If the fail safe is set correct then even if the Tx is turned off the motor won't turn on. If there is an external Rx switch and it gets turned off then (in theory and so far in all my years flying E) the motor doesn't run after it's off. I've always asked Dave (or whoever gets my plane) to turn off the Rx BEFORE picking my plane up from the runway. Haven't had one start back up when done this way. But once back to me, I pull the canopy and disarm it before it goes anywhere else.

For the way that I do things, I don't see an advantage of a safety plug on my personal planes. I've been flying electric pattern since '03, so my habits (Rx power off once landed) are just normal for me. I can certainly see where some would benefit from an external plug (screws holding on canopy, battery connection not easy to get to and newcomers to electric), but I think there is just a different issue...

Maybe as pilots we just need to be more self-aware and responsible?

Sent from my iP
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